Basketball thread v. McNeese State
December 29th, 2023 at 8:51 PM ^
I’d love for anyone to come on here and legitimately justify the need for Juwan to be the head coach at Michigan next year. We all love Juwan for his time with the Fab 5 but this isn’t even remotely working out.
December 29th, 2023 at 8:54 PM ^
Sam Webb will tell you about our amazing recruiting class coming in. But if you have no coaching to develop them or put them in a coherent system, who gives a shit??
December 29th, 2023 at 8:51 PM ^
There's no defending Juwan Howard anymore, he needs to go. Bring in Dusty May or literally any coach that actually runs an offense and defense, not open gym X's and O's
December 29th, 2023 at 8:52 PM ^
Thank you BTN minus. I’m glad I’m not watching this.
December 29th, 2023 at 8:52 PM ^
Woof. We had a couple chances to fire Juwan for cause and save some money, too.
Every day that Juwan coaches from here on is an indictment of Warde Manuel. He handled the Mel Pearson situation terribly, he hasn’t locked up Harbaugh long term, and now he’s had multiple opportunities to move on from Juwan and instead the basketball program is in a death spiral.
December 29th, 2023 at 8:53 PM ^
Whew boy. But, I continue to persist in the belief that we've sacrificed basketball for the good of the football program.
December 29th, 2023 at 8:54 PM ^
Have we hit rock bottom yet?
December 29th, 2023 at 8:54 PM ^
The beginning of the end of the Juwan Howard tenure.
December 29th, 2023 at 8:56 PM ^
Can it be the end of the end instead? Please?
December 29th, 2023 at 8:55 PM ^
I've been a Juwan defender, but it seems increasingly clear that Franz Wagner probably made him look better than he actually was (and Franz is now tearing it up in the NBA). This program has not been the same since he left.
Unfortunately, there aren't any more Wagner boys left to come here.
December 29th, 2023 at 9:03 PM ^
Beate is slacking off.
December 29th, 2023 at 8:56 PM ^
Well at least we did not lose to McNeese by as much as Mississippi University for Women did.
December 29th, 2023 at 8:57 PM ^
I legit laughed
December 29th, 2023 at 8:58 PM ^
They don't play smart, they don't play hard, they don't play together, & they don't play with any passion or purpose. That's the players, & they are a reflection of the coaching.
December 29th, 2023 at 9:00 PM ^
With that comibination they are going to be playing in front of some very small crowds at Crisler this winter.
December 29th, 2023 at 9:01 PM ^
If they keep playing like this, that's more than they deserve.
December 29th, 2023 at 9:04 PM ^
Who *in their right mind* would pay to go watch this team play?
December 29th, 2023 at 9:16 PM ^
We’ve had bball tix for 35 years and will continue to pay to support the team. Having said that, I am disappointed, to say the least, in the coaching by Juwan. He is a valued asset to the program and the university. But he is not a good Big10 coach. 👨🍳
December 29th, 2023 at 8:59 PM ^
How many Juwan slappies are still out there after this?
December 29th, 2023 at 9:04 PM ^
There's a significant sized portion of fans who will follow whatever Access Media Michigan Homer "Journalists" tell them
December 29th, 2023 at 9:31 PM ^
But most of those guys aren't big Juwan fans, since he avoids speaking to the media like the plague.
December 29th, 2023 at 9:49 PM ^
Sam Webb, Clayton Sayfie, and Isiah Hole are all Juwan slappies
December 29th, 2023 at 9:44 PM ^
For Juwan, “slappy” is a loaded term.
December 29th, 2023 at 9:02 PM ^
Hahaha
Fire Juwan from a fucking cannon…try to include Warde too if he’ll fit
December 29th, 2023 at 9:07 PM ^
You're gonna need a bigger cannon...
December 29th, 2023 at 9:04 PM ^
There are 0 arguments in favor of retaining Howard at this point. What an embarrassment.
December 29th, 2023 at 9:06 PM ^
Time to end this clown car show ! Opposite defenders not even seeing their man and the ball . Let Jay smith coach the defense . Sadi has no clue
December 29th, 2023 at 9:10 PM ^
Well, things have been poor all but one year, but everyone here really values the tourney, so they point to the 2 game winning streak over the meh season. It’s bad. If you aren’t going to move along, you have to get a defensive coordinator and fire some assistants.
I’d prefer to move on
December 29th, 2023 at 9:11 PM ^
I mean, if Warde felt he needed some air cover when letting Juwan go, you'd be hard pressed to come up with something better than the Rose Bowl.
December 29th, 2023 at 9:11 PM ^
Fire Juwan tonight and let Martelli finish out the season. Go after Dusty May in the off-season.
December 29th, 2023 at 9:16 PM ^
I like May a lot. But Back up the Brinks truck for Hurley or Tommy Lloyd.
December 29th, 2023 at 9:11 PM ^
We suck.
December 29th, 2023 at 9:14 PM ^
The defense just falling apart these past couple of games in a way that doesn't make any sense. This team had fewer good defenders last year and we're still better defensively than this outfit. And the offense is better than it was last year, so even having last year's defense would likely make this team significantly better.
I've been a Howard defender but something is broken right now with the basketball team and he doesn't seem capable of fixing it. At this point unless he has some miraculous turnaround you gotta consider getting some new blood in.
Edit: meant last year's team had worse defenders.
December 29th, 2023 at 9:17 PM ^
His implosion as a coach is truly remarkable and should be studied.
December 29th, 2023 at 9:21 PM ^
He won with Beilen's guys.....it's not rocket science
December 29th, 2023 at 9:33 PM ^
The team that won the conference had Dickinson, Brown, Smith, and Franz who he brought in. Livers and Johns/Davis were the only major-ish contributors back and Brooks was basically nothing until Howard took over. This idea he just took over and won with Beilein's players two years after he left doesn't hold up.
December 29th, 2023 at 9:40 PM ^
Franz was recruited by and came to Michigan because of John Beilein.
Mike Smith was a limited role player. Brown came off the bench.
The weird year empty building big ten championship team would've been lost without Eli Brooks/Livers/Austin Davis leadership that developed under Beilein.
December 29th, 2023 at 9:50 PM ^
Regarding Franz not totally true. Franz was in town when Beilein announced he was leaving and had not yet signed...Juwan had to still recruit him
Saying that, changes need to be made but I have zero confidence that Warde would make a good choice
December 29th, 2023 at 9:53 PM ^
I don't think this discussion regarding Beilein's guys versus not Beilein's guys is particularly fruitful but...Franz is a Beilein guy. Yes, he literally had to commit to Howard, but come on. Now, Beilein never actually coached Franz, but basically he was coached by wherever he was in Germany. He was with Howard for two years, though, and Howard can get whatever credit we want to give him for getting to the Elite 8 that year.
Just as he gets the blame for letting the roster fall apart after that and missing the tournament with Hunter and 2 NBA first rounders.
December 29th, 2023 at 9:57 PM ^
Agree its not really worth it and yes Beilein did recruit him for the most part but so did Juwan..so he does deserve that credit and coaching him
It is like a 50/50 thing probably
Either way, does not matter, he recruited like shit besides that and looks lost
December 29th, 2023 at 9:18 PM ^
Last year's team had 2 nba draft picks + Dickinson. Even if they're not defensively minded players, they're just way more talented than anyone on this year's team 😐
December 29th, 2023 at 9:20 PM ^
Something isn't broken with the program RIGHT NOW
Juwan's 43-40 with losses to CMU, Long Beach, and McNeese without Beilein core guys
December 29th, 2023 at 9:17 PM ^
This is what happens when you hire from your heart instead of your head....if there is a shred of doubt about a candidate based on experience, scheme, knowledge, organizational skills then that particular person is most likely not the best person for the job.....Howard was a decision entirely based on heart...no different than Brady Hoke.....two great men, highly likeable but not the best course of action for the future of the program....it's sad that Howard was placed into this position - he was not ready for the college game - he probably would make a solid NBA head coach with a talented roster where all you handle is personalities and egos - in college, meticulous attention to detail and fundamentals are paramount.
I will not hate on anyone who has or still defends Howard's hire because that's just BS counter-productive nonsense - but it just underscores the value of hiring the right people.
December 29th, 2023 at 9:41 PM ^
I mean who else were you going to get when JB hung it up in May?
December 29th, 2023 at 9:46 PM ^
Shaka Smart, Porter Moser, Luke Yahlich, Dana Altman, Greg McDermott, Kelvin Sampson
December 29th, 2023 at 10:38 PM ^
Of the head coaches you listed, none of them were actually available so whether they would have ditched their teams in May to sign up with Michigan is debatable. You don’t think Phil Knight would open up the pocket books? Moser, maybe, but the best job he could get in the open market was Oklahoma, which isn’t terrible, but didn’t have Michigan’s recent success. By all accounts, Beilein had us surging. Yaklich hasn’t exactly gone out and been hired by another big time program. I would not have been thrilled with him taking over with no prior head coaching experience. Howard was being actively talked about for NBA head coaching jobs. And you know what, maybe that’s more his cup of tea? I don’t think he’s a bad basketball coach. College and pros are a different beast. Also, FWIW, I can’t imagine Michigan hiring Sampson given his history. Just no way they would do it.
December 29th, 2023 at 9:59 PM ^
You cannot underestimate or overstate how good and desirable our program was at that point in time - plenty of quality coaches would have signed up for it.....but, I was fine with handing the keys to Yaklich which I stated many times - there was no need to change up the consistency and not have a strong intent of keeping a defensive-minded philosophy UNLESS you were getting an unbelievable hire.
It is what it is but Howard was put into a tough situation - the whole thing reminds me EXACTLY of when Rich Rod was brought in and barely kept anyone from the previous staff and thought he was so brilliant that his way of going about things was far more advanced than the overall tradition of the program or the previous Head Coach.....not entirely the same but there is a similar stench of arrogance.
December 29th, 2023 at 9:50 PM ^
Repsectfully, who else was available so late in the hiring cycle that you would’ve REALISTICALLY taken over Howard? By the time Beilein had left, the hiring cycle was already well over.
Guys like Billy Donovan were always pipe dreams, and you were choosing between kicking the tires on known quantities like Ed Cooley (guys who you knew would make you decent to respectable but would probably never win you the Big Ten or get you out of the first weekend of the tournament), or wild cards like Howard.
Personally, I think they made the right call with hiring Howard, given what their options were that late in the cycle. It was a dice roll to say the least, but if it paid off it was a move that stretched the ceiling of your program beyond what Beilein could do. I respect Michigan taking a big swing on Howard. It didn’t work, but I’m glad they at least tried.