A sign of things to come, Duke player quits team midseason to prep for draft
Projected lottery pick Jalen Johnson “opts out” of the rest of the season. Not because of injury or anything. He just quit.
I actually thought we’d see this happen in football first. What do you all make of this? I realize he’s acting in his best interest, but is just up and quitting a bridge too far?
February 15th, 2021 at 6:57 PM ^
A close enough bridge. He doesn’t owe the school or his team anything. It’s his future.
February 15th, 2021 at 7:00 PM ^
You don’t think he owes his teammates his effort? He took a roster spot which could have been filled by someone who wouldn’t do this.
February 15th, 2021 at 7:03 PM ^
His team will just have to roll with the punches. It’s a business now. They know that.
February 15th, 2021 at 7:12 PM ^
I agree Larry, although he probably wouldn't do this if Duke was any good this year.
This to me just proves what Juwan is doing is the way to go, recruit a couple of at least high 4 star or 5 star guys and surround them with guys that will probably play 2 or 3 years so we're not susceptible to this kind of decision.
February 15th, 2021 at 7:30 PM ^
He took a roster spot because he had to, thanks to a rule that shouldn't exist (and won't exist in 2022). He went to Duke for one year because he thought he was going to get the best preparation for the draft. Duke isn't providing the experience he wants, so buh bye.
I think it's time to stop thinking of this as "he quit on his team," because it was never his team. It was a mandatory stop along the way. No sense in letting a school you're not invested in exploit you.
If I were his teammates, I'd be bummed, sure. But the problem isn't that he quit. It's the fact that there's a system that favors universities at the expense of athletes. His decision is a symptom of that. Nothing more.
February 15th, 2021 at 7:31 PM ^
Isaiah Todd proves otherwise.
February 15th, 2021 at 7:44 PM ^
No he doesn't. Todd made his own decision. We don't know the background of Johnson's story. Maybe he thought he'd learn more from Coach K than he was. Maybe he got bad advice from someone. Maybe he didn't get an offer in the G league like Todd did. He did have a poorly-timed meniscus repair.
They're different people, and they have different paths. Doesn't change the root of the problem.
February 15th, 2021 at 7:54 PM ^
If he couldn’t go G-League, he could have gone to Europe, Asia, or Australia. He 100% had options.
February 15th, 2021 at 8:30 PM ^
Not everyone can go overseas at the drop of a hat. Saying "he had options" doesn't change the fact that they were all vehicles to the pros. Regardless of what he chose, he has every right to do what he thinks is best for him now. The system is such that true "Teams" are the exception rather than the rule. You want to change that, change the system.
February 15th, 2021 at 8:33 PM ^
I guess what it boils down to is that I don't care about this decision. Is it ideal for everyone? No. But that's how it goes sometimes.
February 16th, 2021 at 9:02 AM ^
Actually, the G (or Europe, Australia, etc) DO change the root of the problem!
There are options in hoops for those not remotely interested in the college experience.
Unless you want to make the argument that Duke pays better than those alternatives - I'm here for that!
February 15th, 2021 at 7:53 PM ^
He made a commitment and there were other options. I was disappointed by Todd going to the G League, but I’m not angry at him. I think there should be options for guys who aren’t college material, and I don’t care that guys go overseas. I think athletes should make NIL money. I accept that guys go to the pros and support the decision if they think it’s wise. I’m not even against Nick Bosa situations where injuries chop off most of a season and they decide it’s time to wrap it up.
But he decided to spend a year at Duke. He just quit on his team mid season.
Thats a step further. That’s not just a guy taking care of himself. That’s a guy taking care of himself at the expense of others. Yeah, you’re going to the NBA next year and the season isn’t great, but don’t quit on your team.
February 16th, 2021 at 12:16 PM ^
OTOH you have folks like Jake Butt who play in a meaningless bowl game for his team, tear their ACL, slide to the 5th round, and their professional careers never get any traction.
These kids are not under any contractual obligation to play out entire seasons. They are not under any contractual obligations because they don't get paid.
IMO, if you want to obligate kids to risk their health and careers playing a game for which a school makes millions of dollars on their backs, pay them.
For all intents and purposes, Duke's season is done whether Johnson plays or not. They weren't a tournament team even with him in the lineup. His early departure is going to have minimal impact on their national exposure. If anything, his early departure means the kids behind him are going to get more minutes and exposure, so the "think of his poor teammates!" refrain actually goes the other way on some level. I'm 90% sure Coach K is on board with this decision because at this point you might as well give PT to kids you know are going to be around next year.
February 16th, 2021 at 12:55 PM ^
A college scholarship is definitely worth quite a bit of money -- room, board, many services, education, publicity, ...
February 16th, 2021 at 2:19 PM ^
Do we actually know for sure that Butt's lack of success in the NFL was due directly to his knee injury?
February 16th, 2021 at 3:12 PM ^
Perhaps, but his draft position was almost certainly impacted by it. I don't know where he projected pre-injury, but the fact that he couldn't participate in the combine and entered the draft as damaged good certainly had an impact on his earnings potential.
February 16th, 2021 at 3:31 PM ^
No, but it affected his draft stock. He was projected to go in the 2nd round pre-injury, and slid to the 5th post-injury. At a minimum, it affected his rookie contract (for reference, Butt's rookie contract was 4-years/$2.7 mil, while Denver's 2nd round pick Demarcus Walker got a 4 year/$5 mil contract and Adam Shaheen, a 2017 TE drafted in the 2nd round got something around 4 years/$5 mil as well).
Beyond his rookie contract, it's unknown how it affected Butt's career, but I think as a general proposition it's indisputable that players drafted in higher rounds get more opportunities because of the higher investment teams have spent on them, both in terms of draft stock and contract money.
February 15th, 2021 at 9:40 PM ^
I am not going to downvote you but I find this laughable. All of what you said could be true (which it probably is not) and that still does not excuse the BS nature of quitting on the team midseason. Maybe his teammates and coach will understand or excuse it and maybe he has other good reasons but on it's face, it's a BS move. The fact that you think "life is not treating him fairly" so he can make whatever decision he wants without criticism is pretty weak. The road to achieving one's goals is not going to be perfectly laid out for most people. Most have to overcome a few hardships like being awarded a full scholarship to play basketball at Duke.
February 16th, 2021 at 3:12 AM ^
Well said BostonWolverine. Duke lauds itself as an NBA factory and they haven't lived up to that promise to him. That sword cuts both ways.
February 16th, 2021 at 3:13 AM ^
Well said BostonWolverine. Duke lauds itself as an NBA factory and they haven't lived up to that promise to him. That sword cuts both ways.
February 16th, 2021 at 9:05 AM ^
It wasn't that well said!
February 16th, 2021 at 6:45 AM ^
This is a really good response...nothing to add
February 16th, 2021 at 8:08 AM ^
It's completely amazing to me how there is a group of people who actually believe that football and basketball athletes, who are treated like kings and live a privileged life totally unlike the average college student, complete with free food, free health care, monetary stipends, free travel, and much more, are "exploited" by the mean old man. It's simply ludicrous.
February 16th, 2021 at 8:39 AM ^
Are they earning what they're worth on the free market? No. So they are being exploited even if the deal has been sweetened.
February 16th, 2021 at 1:17 PM ^
They're "earning" more. The cost of attendance at Duke is ~$80k. The average G League contract is $35k.
February 18th, 2021 at 9:41 AM ^
there's about 2 guys per the average football team who are worth anything more than the cost of all their freebies
February 16th, 2021 at 10:25 AM ^
What do you mean by "Exploited"?? If you mean, paid significantly less than their market value, then I don't see the ludicrous part. These things are not mutually exclusive --- 1) college athletes are generally treated better than the average college students and 2) college athletes in revenue sports are generally exploited
February 16th, 2021 at 12:31 PM ^
Look I'm not going to disagree with you on how college athletes at power 5 schools for bball and football live a generally priveleged life compared to the rest of the student body...
...but I'm not for one minute going to defend the higher ups with gobs and gobs of money (and who get to pull the money strings however they want) who are very clearly exploiting them to get more money without having to pay them a dime. There are a lot of rich fucks in this country who put in minimal effort but reap the benefits of their underlings' hard work.
February 16th, 2021 at 2:14 PM ^
My parent always taught me that once I commit to something I need to follow through. I require this of my kids as well. If they decide to be on the swim team and feel, halfway through the season, they want to quit that is unacceptable. You finish out the season and then make a different choice. His decision isn't about the university not providing the expected experience it's about the other young men on the team relying on him and him living up to his word. Things go wrong in a season all the time, coaches have issues, universities have issues, athletic departments have issues and players have issues. If one of those things happens and the season doesn't live up to expectations you don't just quit. That is not what winners do. That is not what people with integrity do.
February 15th, 2021 at 7:43 PM ^
No, he didn’t take someone else’s scholarship. He took the one they offered him, so that he’d play one year. And he played for a fair amount of the season.
What it means is they now a bench player can get more PT for a team that is not bound for the tournament.
Let’s not hate on a young person for making a business decision for his future. Or, if you choose to, know that you’re in the minority in this day and age where amateurism is forced upon young adults that are already ready to be pros from a purely skill standpoint. I guess in a country where the minority can win their outcome despite being outvoted, your moral outrage means more.
However, this student athlete is just using the abusive system to his advantage. How dare he!
If it were about amateurism and development of the person and their ethics, then the NCAA would revise their eligibility reqs to be three years before allowing students to declare, like other major sports. But it is just about using elite college programs as an evaluation for prospects on the precipice of either being a lottery pick or a flameout.
Then again, make sure you live up to all your commitments even if you are offered the opportunity of a better job if you are so inclined. Think of the person they could’ve hired in your place—one committed to the team until the employer decides you’re services are no longer a fit and you may no longer be the commodity you were before.
February 15th, 2021 at 7:56 PM ^
Amateurism was not forced upon him. He had professional options.
February 15th, 2021 at 10:05 PM ^
Being an amateur also doesn't mean you have stay amateur. Sort of like when an an intern gets a job offer.
February 15th, 2021 at 8:44 PM ^
Do you not realize that the NCAA doesn’t set the rules on who can go to the NBA? It’s not the NCAA’s rule - it’s the NBA’s rule. Listen, the NCAA is a crap organization and does a lot of things incorrectly; however, the pro leagues set the rules on who can play. The NBA created the one-and-done rule, just as the NFL created the 3-years out of high school before being draft eligible rule. They don’t say you have to play college ball, just that you can’t play in their league until those requirements are met. The NFL rule makes sense - kids just out of HS could literally be killed going against grown men in a violent sport. The NBA rule ... not so much. But don’t get it confused - the NBA and NFL get a lot out of the NCAA - players get name recognition and they get some development without requiring the franchise to have minor league systems where they’d have to pay them. Baseball and hockey both have minor leagues - players are draft eligible at 18 (ie, done with HS age). In baseball, if you’re drafted you can sign. If you don’t sign and choose to go to college, you’re not eligible to re-enter the draft for 3 years (ie, after your junior year in college). In hockey, it’s different because when you’re drafted at 18, the team that drafts you retains your rights throughout your college career. So you can literally sign whenever with the team that drafted you at 18. Like Quinn Hughes did. He played his freshman year for us, got drafted in the top 10 (he was young when he played his freshman year for us which is why he wasn’t eligible for the NHL draft before playing his freshman year), stayed for his sophomore year and then when Michigan’s season ended, he signed with Vancouver and got some late season pro experience before tearing it up the next season in the NHL.
Which system is best? I’d say both baseball and hockey have their advantages. I prefer the baseball model over everything. I’d like the NBA to adopt a similar model - everyone can get drafted at 18 (ie, out of HS). If you sign, great. If you don’t sign, you have to wait 2 years and then you can go back into the draft (after your sophomore year in college). It allows the true one-and-done guys, and guys who have no interest in college, a chance to go pro right away. It also helps college coaches, knowing that if they do get a player, they likely get them for at least 2 years (obviously could transfer or go to Europe, etc.).
February 15th, 2021 at 8:19 PM ^
Do you seriously think that coach K would not have still offered this kid if he told him he would quit the team if it became clear that the team would not make the NCAA tourney?
It is laughable to argue that this kid is "taking" some other kid's scholarship.
February 15th, 2021 at 8:23 PM ^
I’m certain he would not have.
February 15th, 2021 at 8:50 PM ^
Then he would not be chasing after the one-and-done's like he is right now.
Another hint that you are not correct; you will not hear much bitch and moaning from coach K about this, because he does not want to chase away other one-and-done recruits who would not look favorably if Coach K came down harsh on this.
February 15th, 2021 at 9:07 PM ^
And sure enough... does this sound like a guy who would not have given Jalen Johnson a scholarship if he might have left early???
"While we are encouraged by what we are seeing medically, for Jalen's future, we believe this decision is in his best interest," Krzyzewski said in the release. "We are ultimately careful with every one of our players and will continue to support Jalen as he progresses toward his goal of playing professional basketball."
February 15th, 2021 at 9:52 PM ^
Exactly. If you’re embracing the one-and-done trend, you’re not looking out for a kid’s education or holistic team principles. You’re being utterly mercenary. You’re trying to win now and get the kid to the nba within a year. This is a professional racket, except the kids don’t get paid for a year.
February 16th, 2021 at 9:13 AM ^
There's a pretty big difference between pursuing 1 & dones and getting .5 & gones.
And it's more than just the 100% difference in a math equation!
February 15th, 2021 at 8:48 PM ^
Just curious if this is your view fir when kids don't play in "meaningless bowl games"‽ I kind of agree with you, but kids these days!
February 15th, 2021 at 9:11 PM ^
I don’t think this is the same. Duke still theoretically has a shot at the national championship. They could get a bid to the Big Dance, either by rallying now or winning the ACC tournament. Obviously it’s a long shot, but it’s possible.
In football, bowls really are meaningless for players who plan to leave. They’ve been completely devalued by the playoff and now are just an extra spring practice. They are comparable to the NIT, only with probably a greater chance of injury.
February 15th, 2021 at 9:41 PM ^
I assume he didn't enter this season assuming he'd back out.
My general feeling is that if we aren't paying athletes and pointedly treat them as unpaid amateurs, they should be allowed to quit what they're doing with the same freedom as anyone else. If Duke wants to go after him for the month or two left of his scholarship they're covering so be it, but the fact he's even playing in college is because the NBA (with the help of the NCAA) make it virtually impossible to jump from HS to the pros anyway and thus most of these guys either have to take a detour to a developmental league for a season or the NCAA.
February 15th, 2021 at 10:37 PM ^
I think people like to romanticize college sports. Probably Michigan more than most since that was a big angle Bo pushed talking about playing for a team rather than a contract. That way of thinking made more sense in the 70s but sports are BIG business now. I'm not gonna act like kids should gamble millions of dollars to show to some loyalty to what is nothing more than a glorified semi-pro team.
February 15th, 2021 at 7:09 PM ^
He doesn't owe them anything and he should do what's best for him, but that also doesn't change that he quit on his team. The two things aren't mutually exclusive
February 15th, 2021 at 7:30 PM ^
Maybe he also has valid reasons to step away during a pandemic. As long as schools exploit players, I have no issue with players taking care of their own business.
February 15th, 2021 at 7:48 PM ^
JJ Watt quit on his team, too. Teams quit on their players. See the Cavs and Cavs Nots just today—benching starters to trade them so those players don’t get hurt and lose what trade value they have.
The young players have learned from the older adults how to business. Good for him, since Duke is a pro feeder team.
February 15th, 2021 at 7:56 PM ^
JJ Watt didn’t quit. He asked for his release. It’s the off season, that’s when these things happen (I think Houston should trade Watson, too). NBA teams benching guys that will be traded is often in the best interests of all parties (though I think the Pels should have let Anthony Davis play).
Not the same thing.
February 15th, 2021 at 9:11 PM ^
It was in Houston's best interest to release JJ Watt. Houston was $18 million over the 2021 cap and Watt's cap hit in 2021 was $17.5 million.
They lost with him, they can lose without him and save $17.5 million.
February 15th, 2021 at 9:25 PM ^
It's mostly the same thing we just hold organizations to a different standard than individual players. When a team sits a player down we mostly defend it for being in the best interest for both parties but in reality the team only really cares about its interests, its just a healthy player serves its interests. When a player chooses to sit there's no way to spin it as helping the team so its easy to look at it as selfish and label it as quitting. Trading a player mid season is basically giving up no? We've come to accept it as part of the game. Why shouldn't a player be allowed to make a similar decision if its in their best interest for the future?
February 15th, 2021 at 8:12 PM ^
Isn’t a scholarship a commitment? Maybe not a legal one, but a commitment none the less.