OT: USMNT loses to Canada (Yes, That Canada) for the first time since 1985
Don't a lot of you people like soccer or something? The USMNT is even featured on the main page sometimes so I feel silly calling it OT.
So, my understanding is it's humiliating to lose to Canada. I didn't know Canada played soccer, eh?
USMNT lost 2-0.
I'm just here for the schadenfreude.
October 16th, 2019 at 12:21 PM ^
I would tend to guess that women participated in sports in meaningful numbers at an earlier date (Title IX was passed in 1972) in the U.S. than in other countries, giving us a huge head start.
I've read a couple of articles which discuss this concept.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-close-is-the-rest-of-the-world-to-catching-the-u-s/
October 16th, 2019 at 3:41 PM ^
Difference is that in much of the world, the best athletes do play soccer.
In many countries, soccer is by far the most watched/followed sport among adults - so not only do they invest in training and development, there's a huge pool of players. At minimum, hundreds of millions of young men play competitive soccer around the world, some of whom reach the top.
In most European, SA, African, even Asian countries, soccer is #1, and there really isn't a #2.
Here in US, while soccer is played by tons of young kids, at higher levels it's treated more like gymnastics, figure skating and ice skating - a relatively small number of (mostly affluent) kids - and their parents - extremely dedicated to the sport.
Gymnastics, ice skating (at least figure skating), and even competitive swimming are niche sports. A relatively small number of extremely dedicated people go through years of training to reach the highest levels. That small pool of athletes in US can compete internationally because there simply aren't as many people competing in those sports.
Football and basketball are the most popular sports among most of our best male athletes. I suspect our success in soccer will slowly improve as MLS continues to grow in popularity and more of the most talented young athletes play/emphasize soccer - especially with people opting out of football. If/when soccer attains the level of popularity football and hoops enjoy, the US will become competitive internationally.
As for women, that's easy:
In terms of participation, training, professional opportunity, marketing, etc. US women have had a huge advantage over the rest of the world. Title IX has really helped US women in most sports.
Soccer is among the most popular sports for US women at all levels. Many of our top female athletes choose to play soccer.
The US women's team dominance probably won't last. Many other countries are finally giving women access to training/exposure/money, and the level of play is rapidly improving. That said, US women are starting from a position of advantage, unlike the men.
October 16th, 2019 at 9:13 AM ^
Not necessarily directed at you, but I will never, ever, ever accept this as a reasonable response.
We have 329 million people in this country. You need about 20-30 great players to field a program. This has nothing to do with the whole, "our best players are playing other sports." Maybe our best ATHLETES are playing other sports like the NBA or NFL, but you don't need physical, jacked guys to play soccer. In fact, I would argue that it's better that your soccer players aren't all muscular beefcakes.
It's about style, finesse, and the ability to work as one cohesive unit. There is absolutely no reason that the USA cannot field a top 10 men's program. I just think there is constantly a disconnect between what the program wants to be and what the players are capable of. We went from a pathetically slow, boring, possession style under Bradley, to the complete opposite with Klinsmann, and now we are back to being Bradley's system.
October 16th, 2019 at 9:18 AM ^
The would-be best soccer players are playing football, going to D-3, and then become financial advisors or something.
October 16th, 2019 at 3:42 PM ^
By that rationale, China and India should be dominating the world in all kinds of sports....
October 16th, 2019 at 12:08 PM ^
There are over 300 million people in this country, and soccer demands different types of athletes than other sports There's room for a top-tier men's soccer team in the US, with the right resources.
I'm more inclined to believe it's a system issue. The US doesn't very much care about soccer, it doesn't bring in the money that basketball, football, baseball, and even hockey do.
I also think there's a lot of untapped potential with soccer popularity in this country. But I cannot even pretend to know how one taps into it. I just know that I watch and appreciate the weekend broadcasts of European matches on local TV, but could not care less about random MLS team playing another random MLS team.
October 16th, 2019 at 8:33 AM ^
SHALL WE PLAY A GAME?
October 16th, 2019 at 8:38 AM ^
I've lived in Canada and the folks up there love to stick it to us "Yankees". This will be a huge deal to them. I'm actually surprised I haven't heard from my buddies on WhatsApp about this yet. USMNT should feel bad about this.
October 16th, 2019 at 12:26 PM ^
I'd say that the Canadian MLS teams and the womens team draw more interest than the mens. Hell the match wasn't televised in Canada.
October 16th, 2019 at 5:02 PM ^
Yea but I bet that will change pretty quick if the Canadian men's team makes a habit out of beating the US and/or qualifies for the World Cup!
October 16th, 2019 at 8:45 AM ^
If this means we beat Canada in hockey in the next winter Olympics, I'll take it. Hopefully it won't be like Vancouver where we play an amazing game and beat them, only to have to play them again in the gold medal match (which we still almost won).
October 16th, 2019 at 9:00 AM ^
Americans don't care enough about USMNT for that to be a fair exchange. Maybe they owe us a hockey gold medal if we let the Allouettes beat the Patriots in the Super Bowl.
October 16th, 2019 at 8:49 AM ^
Soccer in the U.S. .......is for the girls to excel. Not so much for the boys.
October 16th, 2019 at 8:55 AM ^
One of the biggest issues is that we went over a year with an interim manager. Could have hired Berhalter in December of 2017, after the MLS season finished. I believe we were in the midst of a shift in leadership with presidential elections for the USSF, so I get having to wait til February when that was settled. But if Berhalter didn't want to take over then, you move on. Don't wait another 10 months. Made no sense.
He would have had more time to implement his system and we would have a better idea if he was the man for the job. Now, it looks like he was a bad hire but if we want to change, we have to do it soon due to WC qualifying starting next summer.
Ugh. This whole federation is a mess.
October 16th, 2019 at 9:01 AM ^
Watched the game from start to finish.
I honestly do not remember a more disjointed, heartless effort than what I saw last night.
Berhalter is not the man for this job. I had a lot of concerns with Klinsmann, but I miss him already.
I could always question a lot about the USMNT (mostly, talent), but I rarely, if ever, could question their heart and fight. They had no fight last night.
It is entirely possible they don't qualify again for the WC. And if that happens... I do not even know. Couldn't imagine it.
October 16th, 2019 at 9:17 AM ^
I don't think Klinsmann would be doing any better. The man is just not a good coach. I think alot of his criticisms of American soccer were fair - players need to be challenging themselves, need to be in the best leagues around the world, expanding playing opportunities etc etc
I don't think the player pool is going to take that next step unless 1) MLS rapidly improves and becomes at least on the level of Eredivisie. 2) MLS makes it alot easier for players to move on and accepts its place as a stepping stone league. I think we should lean into the latter, but everybody is worried about money and MLS teams folding. I don't really care about that. We are expanding too fast unless you're going to let teams just fire the money cannon.
As for coaching, I think we should have gone after Tata Martino hard and fast. No reason why Mexico should get him over us when we had a vacancy for over a year. Ridiculous. If not Martino, some other proven Hispanic coach. I don't care about a language barrier, it's not a real problem. Get someone in that is going to get us playing aggressive and exciting soccer.
October 16th, 2019 at 12:49 PM ^
As far as Tata goes, it would’ve also helped when it comes to recruiting dual nationals from Mexico and Central America. Considering it’s a large and young demographic that’s only growing, might’ve been wise for the USSF to lean into a bilingual coach. It would also help if they’d, you know, invest in a proper youth system to attract kids who can’t afford to shell out thousands every year.
October 16th, 2019 at 1:16 PM ^
The player pool is there. Berhalter is too busy calling up MLS scrubs.
I agree with Tata. He would have been a great choice. Also agree with the need for a proven Hispanic coach. There are so many players in the youth system that I want to see called up.
October 16th, 2019 at 1:21 PM ^
We don't have alot of overseas options. We have a decent amount in academies throughout Europe, but they're not ready for the senior national team. Personally, I feel like the USMNT team members in MLS should be 22 and under or 30 and over. No reason why anybody getting regular call ups for the USMNT in their prime (23-29) should be playing in MLS. They should be in better leagues. That would be a sign of a healthy roster.
October 16th, 2019 at 6:27 PM ^
I don’t think it’s quite their yet, Bert still needs to pull players from MLS.
there are a lot of promising young players in Europe - Geo Reyna is very talented. We are a few years away from challenging Mexico.
October 16th, 2019 at 1:40 PM ^
I don't think anyone can disagree that Tata would have been a great choice, but the rumor is he was all lined up for Mexico way before he stepped down in Atlanta. It's where he wanted to go. Not sure the US had a chance for him.
October 16th, 2019 at 9:32 AM ^
I both agree and disagree with you. Berhalter is a better manager than Klinsmann; I don't mind Berhalter trying to implement a system of play for the US and at least he goes into games with a plan. His issue is that he is far too idealistic and has zero pragmatism at this point in time. Idealistically, I would love for the US to have the ability keep possession against any opposition and be able to play out from the back against, but realistically the US has maybe 4-5 field players who are of the quality to play that way, and most of those players are barely old enough to purchase alcohol. It's the same reason your local high school can't afford to play like Barcelona: they just don't have the players to do so and any attempt to do so would be embarrassing.
Even so, if this were a club team, Berhalter would be fine. He'd be able to bring in players who are able to play the way he wants to play and he'd have the opportunity to train the team every day and get them comfortable in the system. Unfortunately, this is an international team, so he only gets the players for a week or so every couple of months and nothing seems to sink in.
6.3.1October 16th, 2019 at 9:51 AM ^
Look like some pretty talented players someone yoinked together when Canada needed someone to scrimmage. I think that in about 5 years they'll probably be a top-50 squad.
October 16th, 2019 at 9:07 AM ^
OT: USMNT loses to Canada (Yes, That Canada) for the first time since 1985
Holy shit there is ANOTHER Canada?!?!
October 16th, 2019 at 9:14 AM ^
Matt Canada
October 16th, 2019 at 9:15 AM ^
Shhh... we keep that Canada hidden under all the snow.
October 16th, 2019 at 9:27 AM ^
there are only 15 or so men in Canada who do not know how to ice skate. Those men were naturally forced to be on the Canadian mens national soccer team.......and apparently they are still better than the USNMT - WOW
October 16th, 2019 at 12:08 PM ^
Like the U.S., they have several players who grew up in other countries but were eligible to compete for them due to family ties to Canada.
October 16th, 2019 at 9:56 AM ^
Also, Michigan in 1985:
- beat Notre Dame
- beat Maryland
- lost to a Big Ten team from West on the road who is very good
- played a weird game in Champaign, IL
- beat Michigan State
- beat Ohio State
- beat a team from the west in the postseason
- awarded the national championship by one institution
IT’S HAPPENING!
October 16th, 2019 at 10:15 AM ^
Finally!
After a short break we’re back ??????
Mens and women’s hockey dominance take a seat.
October 16th, 2019 at 11:01 AM ^
As a Canadian-American, I'm OK with this. It's good to see the boys finally putting it together. You see, for years the Canadian coaches thought that soccer was really just hockey without the skates. The light went on recently and they checked some soccer coaching books out of the library and - voila! - they finally win something. Plus, the fact that you have to shovel snow off the pitch for something like 11 months out of the year makes it hard to get any consistency.
October 16th, 2019 at 11:47 AM ^
All the sports teams I love make me miserable now, except for one, the Washington Nationals.
October 16th, 2019 at 12:18 PM ^
We took the gold in Men's team curling at the 2018 Olympics. Isn't that more important? I think it is.
October 16th, 2019 at 12:31 PM ^
The United States will never win the World Cup because they don’t teach the game properly over here. I played soccer from 5 years old all the way through college and for the most part there was little to no variation of how the game was taught. We tend to play long ball in the states, and while we have the best athletes, our skill is lacking as our the tactics we choose to play with
October 16th, 2019 at 2:26 PM ^
It's not about winning a World Cup. Only eight nations have won one and six of them have won more than one, England and Spain the only outliers. It's insanely hard to win a World Cup, even if you're extremely talented.
US should be aiming to be the best team in CONCACAF and regularly to getting to the QF of the WC. We've been there once and have come close a few times (regulation goal away from doing so in 2010 and 2014; 1994 Brazil we only lost by a goal after losing our best player to injury). But right now, we're clearly not the best team in our region and you could make the argument that we're not even the second best right now. We might not even qualify for the next World Cup if we play like we have been recently.
Like with the Mexican national team, it's a balancing act being the USMNT coach. In CONCACAF, we have more talent than almost everyone we play. When you get to the World Cup, you have less talent than most of the teams you'll play. So you have to be able to play the same way regardless of your opponent, or be able to adjust from game to game. We can't do either right now.
October 16th, 2019 at 3:41 PM ^
I have a kid just winding up on the same path you took. I can honestly tell you that he never played on one team that wanted to play long ball, even at the earliest ages.
I freely admit that this might be a club and college thing and that he was/is unusual in that he played at only one club his entire career. His college team plays a more aggressive possession system, but it's still a team that wants to possess it. I will also say that we saw some long ball teams, but it wasn't much of a thing in the leagues and tournaments we hung in.
October 16th, 2019 at 12:32 PM ^
(my hiatus is limited to football, of the american kind, content, lol)
Don't end pay to play for soccer or anything... this team won't reach much further than what it has until then. Sports are a way to escape life and it is often a means to a better life for kids. The dedication and commitment needed to overcome all the obstacles and adversity they face is what turns talented athletes into professional caliber players.
I'll use Cristiano Ronaldo as an example. Like him or loathe him, his dedication, work ethic and attention to detail is, in my opinion, what makes him the top player he is today. Without it, he's just another fancy feet player. He was away from his family at a really young age and that was his only hope to become a footballer. A pay to play program would have rendered him unable to play due to his family financial situation.
October 16th, 2019 at 12:46 PM ^
I heard it here first.... and last.
no one cares
October 16th, 2019 at 1:22 PM ^
My paternal grandparents were born in Canada, so that makes me like 3/16ths centigrade or something.
GO CANADA!
October 16th, 2019 at 1:38 PM ^
Basically Steffen and Long were the only ones worth a damn last night.
Pulling Pulisic off was beyond stupid. He did not play well, but at least he did a couple nice things right before being taken off. It's not a coincidence that as soon as he came off Canada got the opener.
GGG lost me last night. I had been a strong supporter of his because at least previously they looked like they had a style. Last night was pure shit and then he starts acting like he has something to prove with Pulisic.
October 16th, 2019 at 6:10 PM ^
As someone who does not follow it very closely, this article was a very concise eye-opener on why Burhalter has failed and is DOOMED to fail. https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/10/usmnt-canada-gregg-berhalter?csp=trueanthem&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A+Trending+Content&utm_content=5da77730594d1700014c7d08&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter
It's not lazy or uninspired play, but a system that cannot be implemented and is easy to defend if not executed at a level that is nearly impossible for a national side. Basically, the "scripted" offense is too complex for a team mustered from across leagues and continents save a few weeks a year. It's apparently even more difficult than asking Shae Patterson to execute Speed in Space.
October 16th, 2019 at 6:14 PM ^
Canada’s best team that I can remember. Davies is legit. We still should have won though.
Im hoping the Leipzig coach replaces Bert before the next WC.
October 16th, 2019 at 11:59 PM ^
Splinter is gonna be pissed. I would hate to be Michelangelo, Leonardo, Raphael, or Donatello heading back to the sewer tonight.
October 17th, 2019 at 8:40 AM ^
Oh, ... Canada???
October 17th, 2019 at 1:47 PM ^
That was a huge win for Canada in terms of getting into the Hexagonal for Concacaf Wolrd Cup Qualifying. The top 6 ranked Concacaf teams automatically get into the final group. Teams 7 thru 35 have play it out thruout rounds for 1 spot. Going to be a dogfight for that 6th spot. If Honduras slips a bit that 5th spot could be up for grabs also.
Canada is up and coming, especially considering in 2016 they were ranked 117th
Mexico 12 , USA 21 ( will be going down ) , Costa Rica 43, Jamaica 47, Honduras 67 , El Salvador 72, Canada 75, Curacao 76, Panama 77.