Harbaugh's Contract
After Saturday, I personally think it's time for a change. But I know it can be debated and reasonable cases can still be made on both sides.
However, I think a huge factor in all of this is the fact that his contract is set to run out after next season. They would be facing a decision this offseason anyway (I'm surprised we've even made it this far). In college coaching, you just can't have a lame duck year. It would absolutely kill recruiting. And I think a short extension of one, two, or even three years could function the same way. So the question we should be asking isn't whether Harbaugh deserves to be fired, it's whether he deserves a four year extension. And that really changes things up in my opinion. If he had multiple years left after this one on his initial deal, it's way easier just to punt a year, chalk it up to the Covid craziness, and see if we show signs of a turnaround. But we're at the point now where a long-term decision has to be made one way or the other.
And despite the issues we're having, I still think Coach Harbaugh would be a solid NFL candidate. Most of the issues that have unfortunately plagued him at Michigan (rah rah motivation, recruiting, rivalry struggles) aren't as much of a factor in the NFL. Kliff Kingsbury was fired from Texas Tech, immediately got the Cardinals job, and is doing pretty well so far. I agree with those who say that Warde really doesn't want to have to fire him. With the pros, there could be a way to do this respectively. But I think that extension factor looms large here.
November 2nd, 2020 at 3:32 PM ^
I'd take him with the Lions in a heartbeat. I don't know what has happened at Michigan, other than Don Brown. I think he picked up some bad habits from the NFL that he thought he could apply at Michigan, and they haven't panned out perhaps?
But I do know if you gave him a ready made QB in Stafford and a fan base that will cheer wildly at 9-7/10-6, the Lions are a can't lose proposition.
And if he simply goes to a SB there all his failures at Michigan would be forgotten.
November 2nd, 2020 at 3:55 PM ^
For some strange reason, I think he could be a fit with the Lions. Jim Harbaugh is a turn-around specialist - which is what the LOL SOLs need. He did it at USD, Stanford, the 49ers and he did put out the dumpster fire at Michigan. His problem is he hasn't shown he can sustain or grow the momentum he achieves from his turnaround efforts. Some leaders are like that - we didn't know for sure before he came to Michigan because he never coached anywhere else for more than 4 years.
Watching Harbaugh work for the Fords would be entertaining by itself. He might just be crazy enough to take that job.
November 2nd, 2020 at 4:55 PM ^
Jim Harbaugh would be a godsend for the Lions, and I think he'd do well without the burdens of recruiting and a more level playing field from a talent perspective (all jokes aside).
November 2nd, 2020 at 1:43 PM ^
COVID doesn't explain shitty scheme and inability to change mid-game. COVID doesn't explain poor game planning.
Harbaugh's luster has worn off. He may have to take a shitty NFL job to see what he can do but I don't know who would do that right now. Maybe Miami with Ross?
November 2nd, 2020 at 3:49 PM ^
Seriously, enough with "it's just a crazy year" lame-ass excuses. Other teams have been severely impacted by it, but so far it really hasn't affected our roster. We had one guy declare to the NFL and then chose not to come back even when he had the opportunity and only one player who chose not to return specifically due to COVID-19 concerns. Yes it was our best corner, but that's not enough to fix all the issues this team has right now. If you think that guy's decision is solely to blame for our issues, then you're delusional.
All our issues right now are 100% on the shoulders of the coaching staff.
November 2nd, 2020 at 1:47 PM ^
barring a miracle turn around and a victory over OSU this year, (which would be a miracle on par with the fishes and loaves), he's done. Can't extend him, and I have serious doubts that he even wants to be extended
November 2nd, 2020 at 1:53 PM ^
This is one of the few intelligible posts that doesn't bring emotion as the first element - well done, OP...
That said, I don't think it's a matter of Warde 'wanting' to fire him, it's a matter of whether he can actually do it. Personally, I don't think he can. Yes, as AD he certainly has the power. However, I don't believe he has the political backing of alumni and big donors, nor the will of the entire AD staff behind him. I also don't think he has the force of personality to go against Harbaugh in any meaningful way. He's controlled some of JH's more public outbursts (ie: the 'welcome back' saga with Gene Smith), but that's all PR.
That said, I'll let others decide if enough is now enough. If it is, then he has to go. And once that decision is reached, whoever replaces him doesn't really matter - you get the best guy you can, realize that guy is a roll of the dice, and hope for the best.
When you've reached the point where you admit that it's just not working, you have to make a replacement regardless of who's available. Because if the guy you have isn't working, the next guy, at least, has a chance...
November 2nd, 2020 at 1:58 PM ^
This is spot on. It’s all about if Warde can and will fire him without facing a downgrade in brand value. I think they narrative will be if JH can’t win at Michigan, who can? This is a question that I have to be answered internally, and I believe Michigan will have to Publicly acknowledge to encourage the right coach they will have full support.
givng the pandemic, I don’t think this is a top priority for the Athletic Department.
November 2nd, 2020 at 2:44 PM ^
He's controlled some of JH's more public outbursts (ie: the 'welcome back' saga with Gene Smith), but that's all PR.
Maybe this is the problem. We need Jim MFing Harbaugh back. The subdued constrained JH sucks.
November 2nd, 2020 at 7:06 PM ^
Whenever that day comes when JH is no longer the HC...walking out of M stadium without ever beating OSU...uh thats going to eat at him until, well forever.
Just sad we are here right now, sad, sad, sad.
Go Iowa, er I mean Go blue... whatever its the same.
November 2nd, 2020 at 1:53 PM ^
No new contract. Belichick retires, Harbaugh to New England, Josh McDaniels to Michigan. Done. Yer welcome
November 2nd, 2020 at 1:56 PM ^
Harbaugh's contract looks like a hanging chad right now and there may be a reason for that.
November 2nd, 2020 at 1:58 PM ^
Harbaugh issues imho, He has changed the offensive identity after changing coordinators so he's on his 3rd/4th coordinator? Fisch, Drevno/Pep to Gattis... Then defensively Don Brown came and capitolized on a wealth of talent but has not recruited the same level of talent back. 5 years in for Don Brown and dline is decidedly worse though star ratings say otherwise. The Corners 5 years in can't play man defense. I mean, man press defense is ability to turn, run with a receiver down field, cover the ball in the air. They cannot do it.
Nua vs Gmatt and our dline is not near as good, prove me wrong.
DB's, the one constant coach, tell me he can recruit elite cover corners because that hasn't happened either.
Offense, don't have a receiver that can beat a defense over the top! Think about how much easier the offense is to defend when the safeties never have to read a release and get deep fast. We haven't completed a pass beyond 25yds down field this season. Msu saw that and constricted the field and never dropped safeties deep other than their bend don't break defense the last drive.
Harbaugh caved to bring in Gattis. Harbaugh held with Brown, even though back to back years his defense gave up over 50 to osu. And is obviously failed right now.
November 2nd, 2020 at 2:41 PM ^
I don't agree with your premise. Lets agree that no changes will be made this year because C-19.
He found a DC that has run a legit top 5 defense every year, and left him to run it. It may be time to look at upgrades now, but it's an entire side he really hasn't had to spend time with. Maybe it's run it's course and needs some upgrades - better recruiting, some new assistants, more scheme flexibility. Brown will have his shot to improve on what we've see last week, and the last couple of years. Nonetheless, in today's college football defense is secondary to offense - by a mile. 27 points is not an amount that should get a team beat in today's game. But it does have to be better
Offensively, there's been some amount of snakebite going on. When Fisch left, he made a (hindsight) bad move by elevating Drevno beyond what he could do. Pep Hamilton was another (hindsight) bad move that couldn't teach what he wanted to run. For each of these guys, they recruited players to fit. But the coaches weren't up to the players level. With Gattis, again he's recruiting for Gattis' scheme - which is FAR better suited to today's CFB.
I don't know what happened Saturday, but the last 8 games that Gattis called were all pretty good. I don't know where the "caved to bring in Gattis" comes from - care to tell us? Honestly, I think he's fought to bring the offense into respectability. Can he get it there? After Saturday, I dunno...
November 2nd, 2020 at 3:33 PM ^
Brown has had his “shot” for the last 3 years. He ain’t getting it done.
November 2nd, 2020 at 2:03 PM ^
Unless this season completely goes off the rails, I'm not sure how you fire a coach during Covid, particularly when two of our best players opted out. But, you're right that you don't want a lame duck HC for recruiting. But, I'd think JH needs to have a good year in 2021 to be retained. The hard part, as frustrating as some of his losses are, is he's never bad enough to truly warrant being fired without wondering can we find someone better.
November 2nd, 2020 at 2:09 PM ^
You have a good point here. Harbaugh's record is remarkably similar to Michigan's since World War II.
His problem is losing to MSU and OSU. If he was around .500 in those 11 games, he'd probably already have an extension to 2026.
November 2nd, 2020 at 2:28 PM ^
His problem is losing to MSU and OSU. If he was around .500 in those 11 games, he'd probably already have an extension to 2026.
As annoying as MSU is, he is .500 against them. His biggest problem is OSU. Most of that isn't his fault as OSU continues to improve every year while UM just got back to historic levels. His second problem is he never wins as the underdog. If he was .500 versus OSU and in bowls and everything else was the same he'd be fine.
November 2nd, 2020 at 3:01 PM ^
November 2nd, 2020 at 2:09 PM ^
He will not get fired. The Athletic Department is broke and cannot afford to hire a new staff and payout the departing one.
He will not get renewed, even for 1 year. He is a failure and without the budget crisis and ridiculous initial contract, would have been fired.
The homers have defended his failure constantly with 'who else?'. We don't have to hire Saban or Dabo. Dabo was nothing when Clemson hired him. There's a hungry, younger great coach out there that would jump at the opportunity.
November 2nd, 2020 at 2:58 PM ^
Name(s) of said coach?
November 2nd, 2020 at 3:30 PM ^
The athletic department is not broke. It's just not making money THIS year. Normally it's a cash cow.
November 2nd, 2020 at 2:13 PM ^
I would not renew after the season is over unless he somehow pulls an OSU upset. That is the only thing imo that could save him.
November 2nd, 2020 at 2:24 PM ^
Comes down to this for me. You extend 2016 Jim Harbaugh and tell him if 2018-2020 Jim Harbaugh comes back, he is fired with cause.
November 2nd, 2020 at 3:09 PM ^
The Jim Harbaugh we hired died in Columbus, OH, in the Toilet Bowl known as the Horseshoe on 11/26/2016.
Between the shit calls, absurdly bad luck, and overall homer job that screwed us, something changed in that man that we can all speculate on, but will probably never know. I'd rather not get into all the theories and rumors about why his game day passion and crazed competitiveness for the game has left him since that fateful day (some are too personal and it would be irresponsible to speculate) - but he has been a neutered version of the man we hired since that day.
He's done a nice job of rebuilding the program from embarrassment to competitive, but this version of Harbaugh will not take UM to the elite status we all desire. Time to move on to a young, passionate, insanely competitive recruiter, whoever that may be.
The cupboard won't be bare for whoever comes in, but there will obviously be some holes to fill.
November 2nd, 2020 at 3:22 PM ^
That settles it for me then. This version of JH is just a weird dude walking the sideline that doesn't seem to give a shit either way. I want the guy that would get a 15 yard penalty because the spot was off 3 inches in a blowout win. I want Captain Comeback, not Captain Kangaroo. If he is gone forever, i'm ready to move on. Yes, I remember the Hoke and RR eras. Those sucked ass too? What is the point? Its the same situation, but different? Give the keys to Gattis and hire young hungry recruiters and see what happens. If it doesn't work out, oh no, they may lose ranked teams on the road again!!!!!
To be clear, i'm still in favor of keeping him and hope something happens to make the JH that tried to drown his brother come back. Maybe we should put together a go fund me for a trip to the ocean for the Harbaughs.
November 2nd, 2020 at 5:35 PM ^
Didn't he have a son in January 2017 that was in intensive care for almost 20 days?
That is another possible reason for his change from 2016 to today......
November 2nd, 2020 at 2:26 PM ^
I don’t think having a lame duck year would hurt recruiting any more than all the losing lately has.
The University itself can draw 3-3.5 star talent.
November 2nd, 2020 at 2:31 PM ^
I am struggling with what to do. I do not think that Harbaugh gets this program where it's going. However, I am nervous about hiring a new coach during current circumstances. Due to the pandemic, there's no revenue coming in from gamedays for football or basketball. This would make Harbaugh's buyout, a new coach's buyout and all the assistants and so on and so forth tricky. There's also recruiting to factor in. As we have seen with MSU, recruiting is hard in a pandemic. A new coach may come with strong midwest ties but there's still instate connections and such to worry about. Could lose what we already have in 2021 class and have us really struggling for 2022 when we were in on some big time targets. On the other hand, I don't really want to stick with Harbaugh another year and just risk further stagnation.
November 2nd, 2020 at 2:55 PM ^
How accepting would we all be if Harbaugh moved on to an nfl gig and Josh Gattis was promoted to HC? Could keep some recruits in the fold and hope Gattis is able to re-tool the staff on defense with Warriner still assisting. I’m just not ready for another total overhaul of the program which would happen unless UM found an A+ hire which may be difficult. Gattis is young and well connected to the college landscape. He’s bound to get a head coaching gig soon anyway and be gone.
November 2nd, 2020 at 2:59 PM ^
Personally, this is what I would like to see happen. The biggest name out there that you could realistically get after this season is Fleck. I would rather them take a chance on Gattis. I think recruiting would hit another level. It also may be a colossal failure, but at this point, who gives a shit
November 2nd, 2020 at 3:12 PM ^
I'm all in for Gattis to take over. Would like to see some crazy aggressive recruiters brought in, and obviously, a very experienced/successful defensive coordinator should have the $ cannon pointed his way.
November 2nd, 2020 at 3:37 PM ^
Go young. It's a new era. No retreads. No Michigan Men. And maybe consider giving a non-white coach a chance for once.
November 2nd, 2020 at 2:57 PM ^
its obvious, isn't it? We need John..... he beat Jim in the Super Bowl, so he's clearly the better coach.
November 2nd, 2020 at 3:40 PM ^
No, we need the version of Jim that tried to drown John and wouldn't hug his brother after losing the SB. The current version of Jim would have given John a weird, extra long hug on the 50 yard line that made everyone uncomfortable.
November 2nd, 2020 at 2:59 PM ^
If he wins out all of you will be changing your tune and want him to stay. So maybe let's see how the season plays out.
November 2nd, 2020 at 3:02 PM ^
ok, sure. Let me guess, you're also a Washington Generals fan, and think eventually Wile E. Coyote is going to catch the roadrunner
November 2nd, 2020 at 3:22 PM ^
No, yes.
November 2nd, 2020 at 3:28 PM ^
Appreciate the honesty. Stay away from those ACME company rockets though!
November 2nd, 2020 at 7:13 PM ^
I know you know football, there are a good amount of folks on here that do, you are one of them. Minnesota was an apparition clearly, and what we saw against MSU.. we are boned.
Not bashing, more compliment, but the rest of the season will be long, cold, dark and sad.
November 2nd, 2020 at 3:03 PM ^
The extent to which the chicken-littles on this board talk out of both sides of their respective mouths is downright comical.
The man's anger issues were literally resulting in fines and penalty flags and half the board was calling for him to tone it down. Now he's toned it down and the board is saying he is too mellow on must be medicated.
People on here have short memories. The Hoke and RichRod years were brutal. It takes a decade to climb out of that mess, not six years. There isn't a man on earth more upset about the MSU and OSU loss situation than Jim Harbaugh, I assure you of that. He lives and breathes it and just because he doesn't seem as impacted of late doesn't mean that he isn't. People are allowed to grow.
There is no default other option that makes any sense. Luke Fickell? Noteworthy COVID wins against whom? Army? SMU? Get out of here. The dude at Iowa State? Why? PJ Fleck? A week ago this board was commenting on how terrible he is.
The amount of back and forth spastic lurching this fanbase does makes me glad nobody here is in charge of the ship. I hate the MSU loss as much as anyone but it's time to admit that Harbaugh is essentially the best we can do and perhaps beating OSU every 5 years is all we can ask for due to the damage of the Hoke and RichRod eras.
November 2nd, 2020 at 3:33 PM ^
The problem with your argument here is that there are 2 games on that schedule that mean way the hell more than the other 10. He is currently 3-8 about to be 3-9 in those 2 games over the last 6 years. I couldn't give 2 shits and a popsicle about a coach who can religiously beat Northwestern and Indiana.
November 2nd, 2020 at 6:15 PM ^
How about 1 shit and 2 popsicles?
Asking for a current Cleveland Browns receiver.
November 2nd, 2020 at 3:35 PM ^
The extent to which the homers on this board are incurably delusional is staggering. Harbaugh has failed. Time to move on. We have to suffer through the rest of the season. He will not get renewed, hopefully he moves on rather than stick around as a lame duck. We'll find another coach, it's still a top job with the potential to compete for top recruits.
November 2nd, 2020 at 3:51 PM ^
I love how Michigan is the only school in college football where it supposedly takes a decade to rebuild.
November 2nd, 2020 at 4:04 PM ^
Ideally you avoid being in the “blue blood” that has been through a slew of coaches without true success as they define it for a decade or more:
Texas
Nebraska
Florida
Miami
USC
Tennessee
one thing they all have in common is multiple coaching false starts. Nobody can point to a clear better option than Harbaugh. That was not the case with RichRod or Hoke.
November 2nd, 2020 at 4:05 PM ^
Show me a rebuild that took less.
November 2nd, 2020 at 4:24 PM ^
Clemson and Alabama both took far less than a decade.
November 2nd, 2020 at 5:08 PM ^
MSU went from 4-8 under JLS to 11-2 and a Big Ten title in Dantonio's 4th year, went 13-1 his sixth year.
Also Florida just kicked our ass two years ago and went 11-2 last year...