I mean, I think Harbaugh was leaving to go to the NFL. Michigan was going to make him the highest paid coach in the country but that still wasn't enough for him to "feel loved"? I don't blame Harbaugh for wanting immunity for whatever the investigations find, but I also don't blame the university for taking some issue with it. "Love" doesn't mean blanket immunity for possible transgressions. But there was no reason to not give in to it than offer it in the final hours.
All that said, I think the immunity requirement was a red herring. He got offered a contract making him the highest paid coach in the college football and turned it down for more money and a chance to compete for a Super Bowl, which are completely understandable reasons to take the Chargers job and leave Michigan.
I think he should turn down the Bama job and when another big time job opens up, go after it. The Bama boosters are f'n nuts and following Saban is only going to end in disaster. That is a fan base that will have no patience for not contending for an SEC and National Title next year. Not to say they will but depending on how some big name programs do the next year or two you are looking at jobs like Florida, LSU, Penn State and maybe even USC and Ohio St. opening up, and I think if some of those schools get a sense that DeBoer has interest in coaching them, might jump at that opportunity. Again, I don't think any of those schools, aside from Florida, will potentially be in the market for a new head coach in a year, but that isn't to say that other, possibly "better" options than replacing Saban could present itself in only a year or two.
What if Minter or Moore were involved? By no means am I saying that they were, but we also don't know what the NCAA investigation or "evidence" they have. What if that evidence included information that more of the coaching staff were involved or knew about it? If that evidence does exist, it would have come out during the hearing, which would have only brought more attention to all of this and more attention to the coaching staff. Again, I AM NOT saying that evidence exists, or that anyone on the coaching staff had any idea about what Stalions was doing, but IF that evidence exists, avoiding the hearing and taking the 3 game ban makes sense. It is, of course, only one possibility among several reasons why they accepted the 3 games.
**Edit**
Well after seeing the other post about how no new information came out, and nothing implicates any of the other coaches...no idea why Michigan dropped their case. Why go through all the trouble of releasing scathing statements and having attorneys work on the TRO for a week just to drop it less than 24 hours before the hearing. Something isn't making sense.
Doubt McElwain knew anything about Stalions being there. My guess is that he knew someone who was or used to be on Central's staff who could hook him up with a sideline pass.
Ex parte court hearing. Court house doesn't have to be open for a judge to hear the injunction. If that were the case, all anyone would have to do is file whatever they want right at the end of the day prior to a holiday.
That is what is kind of infuriating. Pettiti has a pretty simple way out of this, which is deferring until the NCAA completes it's investigation. I don't see or understand why he is going after Harbaugh when the university/football program would be the entity violating that vague sportmanship rule. Which, if Michigan violated, Rutgers, OSU, and Purdue did as well. Seems like the easiest thing would be deferring to the NCAA investigation/waiting until it is complete, and then fining Michigan, Rutgers, OSU, and Purdue the same amount while also making clear penalties for similar violations in the future would only be increased. Pettiti made this into such a big deal and dragged this out for so long that he painted himself into a corner.
I think the NCAA would try to put this under the "spirit of the rule" bullshit. Like the idea of a member of the coaching staff not being allowed to record/in person scout isn't allowed but a member of the coaching staff paying someone else to do it, while not specifically listed in the rules, kind of violates them? I mean I get the argument why this is a pretty murky grey area we are talking about, but the NCAA has been so f'n toothless these last few years, I see this as them trying to show what "power" they may have by attacking one of their biggest and most popular brands. Honestly, I think this entire thing is petty bullshit. If you didn't like Michigan before, you think this is a huge deal, if you're everyone else, it isn't all that much to get upset about. Those who have compared this to the Astros or Patriots, do they understand that nothing of consequence happened in either situation? The World Champion banners are still hanging, zero punishment to the players involved and the Astros manager that was fired, is now the manager for the Tigers.
That is exactly it. It has nothing to do with tearing down the program, this is simply ego. How dare the program not take my opinion and thoughts more seriously.
No, it's about control. By all accounts, this is a very wealthy man who I'm sure has a history of having his input valued and getting his way. Michigan no longer putting much value in his thoughts, I'm sure, pissed him off. How could the institution he attended and is a booster for not value what he has to say? Going out of his way to sabotage RichRod and now with Harbaugh is his way of "showing" the university, see, look what these guys I didn't want you to hire have done? You should have listened to me because the guys I wanted you to hire would never have done anything to violate the NCAA rules. This reeks of rich pouty asshole not getting his way and doing what he can to show a program what happens when you don't "value" his input.
Doubt it because the NCAA hasn't actually "said" anything other than that Michigan is being investigated for sign stealing. It is not like they have come out and plainly stated that Harbaugh is a cheater, nor would they ever. Also though the NCAA knows that mere public opinion is enough so just by making the investigation public pretty well know that the media and other NCAA fans will pick it up and run with it. I mean, if Michigan was sending a staffer to physically attend and record future opposing teams' signs, then yea, that is against the rules. It seems like that would be an incredibly stupid thing to do. If Michigan sent someone who observed future opposing team signs and took notes about it, that would still be against the rules, but I would also have a hard time believing other programs do not do it as well. If the NCAA wants to get Harbaugh out of coaching college football, no doubt putting him through this bullshit would make jumping to the NFL look more and more attractive.
Gardner led the NFL in pass breakups with 20 and only allowed 1 TD. He also allowed a TOTAL of 54 yards when in man coverage, which equates to 3.4 yards a game. A corner, who only allows 3.4 yards in man coverage...a game...that's unreal. To be fair, idk how often the Jets were in man coverage, even still, that's only one big play he allowed yardage-wise. Hutch was fantastic and when you compare his rookie year to those of the Bosa's and the Watt's he's certainly in their company. No question in my mind he's going to be an outstanding d-lineman for the Lions. Not much you can do for Def Rookie of the Year when your competition is arguably one of the best corners in the NFL already at a position that is notorious for being tough for rookies to adapt to.
I don't think Corum has much of a chance to win, personally. Michigan's OLine has been so dominant that I feel voters will view him as partially a product of the system. I mean, Edwards is averaging 6.7 yards a carry, which may lead some to further conclude that it's less Corum and more the line. Not saying that is or isn't the case, just pointing out how some voters might view it. Not that that has hurt Bama running backs in the past, but this award does seem to favor QBs now. He has a shot, but he's going to need some explosive, long plays, which he hasn't had many of this year.
Michigan is, literally, a historic program, and when your program goes back over 100 years, those rivalry games are just a little more special. College sports are (or used to given the current landscape) what drive fans and appeal to viewers. The "arrogance" is that some/most, but not all, consider the program up there with the likes of OSU, Bama, Florida, and USC, when it just hasn't been that. Each of those other schools have had sustained success contending for national titles on a yearly basis. That just isn't what Michigan has done since the 40's? Michigan, as a modern football program (and even dating back to Bo) is one that contends for the Big Ten title just about every year, and then contends for a national championship once within a 5-10 year span. I don't think it is unfair to say that Michigan "arrogance" is simply tied to how historical a program is, and nowadays, people just don't really care about it since, until recently, Michigan has not been a title contending team.
Completely agree. And I think the Vikings job is probably the better one, honestly. You have Jefferson, and the defense isn't too bad. The Dolphins have Miami, but that division, with Buffalo and the Patriots...I'd take my chances against the Packers, Bears, and Lions.
I can get what Ross was saying with the idea that, he, himself, would not be the guy taking Harbaugh away from Michigan. However, if Harbaugh was the one who was getting ready to leave and it's the Vikings, then of course I could see Ross coming in and being like, "well, shit, if you're leaving Michigan anyway, then come here". Ross doesn't "take" Harbaugh away in that circumstance.
All that said, I think it would be pretty shitty for Harbaugh to leave after the great year he just had, but I also get it in the way that this is a business decision. I just always thought Michigan was more than business to him, but this happens so often that I really shouldn't be surprised.
It because Suh left for a ton of money that the Lions would not/probably could not, afford to match. (They also had the chance to foresee this coming and draft Aaron Donald but decided not to). Stafford did as well as he could and requested a trade since the team was going to clearly be rebuilding...again, and he, rightfully, did not want to be around for it. Calvin and Barry, to some "quit" on the team, again, to some, not to me. I get, entirely, why the both did what they did, when they did. Some fans feels some sort of way about it and feel like they betrayed the team, but I can't hold years of being beaten physically and mentally against them when taking into account their long term health.
I don't think anyone is giving him a "free pass" it is just that there are some legitimate questions about his mental health and how some of the hits he has taken have impacted his decision making.
He was claiming his foot/ankle were bothering him and was told that if he didn't go in then to leave, so he left...albeit running then doing jumping jacks is not the best way to indicate you have an injury to your feet. Can't see any other team taking a shot on him now.
Harbaugh makes those exact same comments in that exact same situation and everyone on here would be loving it. This is the double standard bullshit is what makes the college football rivalries great. How much fun is this game going to be going forward.
I like that Mel Tucker makes those sort of needled jabs. Harbaugh does and has done it to various degrees so having a rival coach doing it too will only add fire to the rivalry. Tucker and Harbaugh could be a pretty fun back and forth going forward. I don't like MSU, but even still, I'm not sure how someone could come away from what Mel Tucker has done and not be somewhat impressed.
I think it has been part of the problem. I'm not sure if you can say there is ONE thing that has been the issue, but more or less a series of big things they just haven't been able to do. The offense is just putrid. How you can recruit all those highly touted receivers and then NOT throw them the fucking ball is just maddening.
Well...He's the linebackers coach so idk how great they have been at that position. They also have Lamar Jackson, who, since he doesn't play linebacker...or defense...I'm going to say that MacDonald had no had in developing him. Maybe he's a good coach, maybe he isn't, I honestly do not know and I don't think any of us really will for some time, but I would not equate that the success of the Ravens over the last few years was due to MacDonald. Plenty of position coaches from good teams have gone on to be not great head coaches and coordinators. Personally, this hire doesn't excite me. It's going to be the guy's first time calling defensive plays and I think there is an adjustment from the NFL to college. I would have preferred to have gotten some up and coming coach who is a proven recruiter, but given Harbaugh's rumored (is it even rumored anymore?) contract, I could see how someone like that would not jump at the chance to coach the defense for a year only to then be looking for a new job a year or two from now if Harbaugh leaves. I don't love it, but I can understand it.
I'm honestly baffled why any highly rated WR would come to Michigan right now especially if Bama is in the mix too. Michigan has recruited some really good WR prospects the last few years and for whatever reason, they haven't lived up to the hype. Then you compare that to Alabama who seem to have one or two wide outs getting taken in the first two rounds of the draft every year. It'd be cool if he picks Michigan, but man, I can't see it happening.
I agree. He ended up getting drafted in the 4th round, which isn't bad, but I think I remember him more or less having to sit for a bit before he got steady playing time just because Bama was so stacked. Had he gone to Michigan I think he would have gotten more playing time early on. Whether that would have helped or hurt idk, but he could have been a stand out piece at Michigan opposed to just another top d-lineman at Bama. Was actually pretty glad when the Lions drafted him, just wish he could stay healthy.
I thought it was the hiring of Les Miles that he ruined. I believe Harbaugh had come out before then and said he was not interested in the job which was after he kind of bashed their academic standards. I had heard Les Miles was going to be the coach until Herbstreit came out premature which Les wanted to keep quite so he could coach LSU in the title game. I might be misremembering though.
I mean, have none of you thought of the idea of Michigan not playing the game and keeping OSU out of the playoff? (at least in theory) I saw more than a few comments about it in other posts on this site. As far as OSU alums who are analysts go, Herbstreit is probably one of the better ones. I think I read somewhere that he moved his family to Tennessee partly because people in Ohio were always giving him shit. Also, I got a little respect for him when he was one of the only analysts talking about how Michigan should be in the National Title game the year they lost on the road to #1 OSU. Then what happened? Michigan got wrecked by USC in the Rose Bowl. I don't love Herbstreit, but I don't hate him either.
Was scrolling to see if anyone brought him up. I think he'd be a solid hire. He was brought up for other GM roles and seemed to have success when he was working in front offices in the early 2000's. Granted, we've been more exposed to him since he's on ESPN, but he always comes across as having a no nonsense approach. I also think the fact that he was a former player can be a benefit, at least when you are trying to change the culture of a team. I would not be upset if they hired him.
The team is just tough to watch and looks lost on defense. They've recruited well and not developing the talent has been a major downfall. Harbaugh does not deserve a pass, not with his paycheck and how long he's been here. All that said, I would not hate to see him back for a final year of his deal, but I also do not think, for recruiting purposes, it would be smart to have a coach's fate rest with the final year of his contract. It's a tough spot because I can get behind some of the arguments about losing some kids due to opting out and it just being a completely shitty year in general. I'd really like to see how Milton does next year and IF Harbaugh is finally able to develop a qb here. Idk though, firing him after this year is completely justified. The team looks sloppy and worse, they almost look complacent, which I think is a direct reflection of the coach. Harbaugh does not seem to be getting fired up and he looks, I don't want to say tired, but annoyed? If you can't have a guy coaching in the final year of his deal, then he has to be gone, because there is no way you can possibly justify extending him, you just can't. Idk who potential coaching candidates would be, but give it to a guy who deserves and wants it regardless of there being any sort of Michigan connection.
I truly do not understand Harbaugh's tenure at Michigan. It seemed like all the teams he had at Stanford and even the 49ers were so fired up and ready for the games, and since he's been here, it's been the opposite. The entire tone/mood of this game seemed to be Michigan just being nonchalant like "we got this, we are the better team, no worries". Good teams don't just play bullshit football for 3 quarters then flip a switch at the end and win, they blow out teams from start to finish. Like, I keep hearing people say "we'll If Harbaugh can't turn the program around who can?" or "who could they get that is better?" My answer to that would be someone who legitimately wants the job and prepares week in and week out like his job depended on it. Harbaugh came here with a massive contract and the University has given him a looooot of free rein since he's been here. It honestly feels like Harbaugh knows this is more or less his job until he doesn't want it and the teams have been playing like it. Instead of wanting to justify his huge contract, he seems complacent, like he has nothing to prove anymore. This was a job he came into where he had really high expectations and he has not come close to delivering.
I've been impressed with how quickly he got Minnesota to where they are. It was really, kind of a perfect spot for him to jump to from Western. Can more or less keep the same recruiting grounds and connections, in a bigger, better program, in a Power 5, and are in the division of the B1G that is by far easier with no real yearly powerhouse aside from Wisconsin if you really want to consider them a power house. He's done well and will be able to be pretty picky if he decides to leave.
I agree with pretty much everything you said. He could be more or less Kirk Ferentz in the sense of just staying with that program and it being his program for better (or in Ferentz's case recently, for worse). I only disagree with the idea that he will NEVER compete for a national title. I don't think he will, but I do not think it is impossible to see scenarios where he gets them into the playoff. I don't think the chances are good, but at Llyod Christmas exclaimed, "so you're telling me there's a chance", and I wouldn't even necessarily put Fleck and Minnesota's chances at 1/1000000. If Fleck chooses to stay at Minnesota for the next 20 years (I can't see him doing that but who knows) then I would not say it is impossible that within those two decades he has them in the playoffs or in the B1G title game where the winner goes to the playoffs, once or twice in that span. Never is too strong, highly-very unlikely, I'd agree with.
Totally agree with this. Didn't some things come out after last season about how players were annoyed that Shea could do whatever he wanted and seemed to have a much longer leash than anyone else on the team? I really think Dylan thought Shea would come in for one year then be gone and the team would be his. Hell, maybe even the Michigan staff thought that as well. As soon as he announced he was coming back, I was expecting Dylan to transfer. It kind of says a lot that he didn't, but he had been expected to be the next starting QB since he came in. Like, the QB position under Harbaugh has been dreadful, so you hate to see talented guys just leave, especially considering we never got to really see all that Dylan had to offer. I really hope all this means that everyone is sold on Milton, because if we have to go through another couple years of bad QB play, it's going to be really rough.
Completely agree. I really wonder if, in the long run, the program would have been better off not grabbing Shea as a transfer, or at least, had he stayed for only one year. Dylan's throws just look soooo much better than Patterson's and I had thought he would have been able to develop into a really nice QB. The coaching staff knows more than me, and you'd hate to not grab a 5 star transfer who won't have to sit out a year, so I get it overall. Still disappointing not to get to see all of what Dylan had to offer. Hope this means Milton has really come along though.
The risk isn't to the players, it to them getting it, bringing it back to their campus, and passing it around. It's like you don't know how a virus spreads. Sure, possibly minimal risk to the players, but then you get an outbreak at a college campus, which in turn spreads to the city. I mean, Don Brown is 65 years old, it isn't like the players are the only ones at risk here.
Not having a concise plan from the start is to blame for this. Whether it is Trump or the NCAA, the complete lack of leadership and letting states and conferences fend for themselves has been a detriment to the country and college sports. Isn't the Federal Government and the NCAA around to be the larger governing bodies? How stupid is it to have different conferences coming up with different standards and ideas when they should all be unified working together to do what is best for EVERYONE. It just blows my mind that we have these organizations and a Federal Government whose purpose, among other things, is to oversee the country, and yet, they both just passed the buck and left conferences and states to look around at each other, shrug, and let them try to come up with their own plans. What the fuck is the point of the NCAA if not to help oversee and unify everyone toward the same goal of doing what is needed, across the board, to make sure college sports would be safe to play in the fall?
I can't even imagine what it would be like if I were heading into my freshman year. I'd have to think a lot of kids/parents are opting for a gap year or can simply take some required classes online to get them out of the way. Such a bizarre time right now.
I agree. Sure, there are ways that this could work, but the NCAA hasn't stepped up and the conferences are all looking around at each other for answers. If you put the players in a bubble, had them take only remote classes, made sure they did not interact with anyone outside of the bubble and had access to a ton of testing with quick results then sure, it might work. But how many schools can actually afford to do that? It isn't like a lot of these guys are going to be in the NFL so getting an education, which is kind of the point of college, is a necessity. We all want to watch them play, but they have to see what it is like when students are on campus. It's a little easier to keep track of an entire team right now opposed to when 20 somethings want to do something other than sit in a room/building with only their teammates and actually want to go out and do things. What happens if someone on a Thursday or Friday tests positive? Does the whole team get quarantined? Will the opposing team even want to play? There are ways where this could have possibly worked, but no one stepped up to direct exactly how that can be done. Isn't that the idea behind the fucking NCAA? They give more of a shit about bagel spreads and athletes using campus water to wash their car than they do about trying to figure out how to operate during a pandemic.
I mean, you have to think this pandemic has an impact on all the recruiting. Maybe Todd feels, with all that is going on, it's better to go make some money right now. Maybe JC would rather stay closer to home than move across the country in the middle of a pandemic. To say it had no impact, I think, would be a mistake, but as to whether or not either play for Michigan had this all not happened, is anyone's guess. You can't not go after good players. Not like Howard lost these guys to Duke or Kentucky, he lost them to ASU, the same school JC's brother plays for, and another to overseas where he can make some good money. Both decisions make sense for those individual recruits.
Did you mean to reply to me? Because what you responded with was not anything I brought up. I have no idea how Peyton will be. I could see him being really good and I could see him being pretty bad. None of us really know until we see/hear him.
Not really sure what anything you said had to do with why ESPN let Tiricho go or how Eli could potentially be a good broadcaster.
I actually think Eli would make a pretty good broadcaster. I know he doesn't have the reputation his brother does, but when he's been given the opportunity to be himself, he's pretty funny and definitely wittier than Peyton, although I'd have to imagine the way Peyton could break down a game would be appealing to watch.
Maybe ESPN should have kept Tirico. Seems odd they'd let him go to NBC then a few years later try to get Al Michaels. I mean, NBC signed Tirico to become Michael's replacement so they must have felt Michaels was on his way out. Why ESPN would let Tirico go then try to get the old guy he's set to replace is just, confusing.
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I mean, I think Harbaugh was leaving to go to the NFL. Michigan was going to make him the highest paid coach in the country but that still wasn't enough for him to "feel loved"? I don't blame Harbaugh for wanting immunity for whatever the investigations find, but I also don't blame the university for taking some issue with it. "Love" doesn't mean blanket immunity for possible transgressions. But there was no reason to not give in to it than offer it in the final hours.
All that said, I think the immunity requirement was a red herring. He got offered a contract making him the highest paid coach in the college football and turned it down for more money and a chance to compete for a Super Bowl, which are completely understandable reasons to take the Chargers job and leave Michigan.
I think he should turn down the Bama job and when another big time job opens up, go after it. The Bama boosters are f'n nuts and following Saban is only going to end in disaster. That is a fan base that will have no patience for not contending for an SEC and National Title next year. Not to say they will but depending on how some big name programs do the next year or two you are looking at jobs like Florida, LSU, Penn State and maybe even USC and Ohio St. opening up, and I think if some of those schools get a sense that DeBoer has interest in coaching them, might jump at that opportunity. Again, I don't think any of those schools, aside from Florida, will potentially be in the market for a new head coach in a year, but that isn't to say that other, possibly "better" options than replacing Saban could present itself in only a year or two.
What if Minter or Moore were involved? By no means am I saying that they were, but we also don't know what the NCAA investigation or "evidence" they have. What if that evidence included information that more of the coaching staff were involved or knew about it? If that evidence does exist, it would have come out during the hearing, which would have only brought more attention to all of this and more attention to the coaching staff. Again, I AM NOT saying that evidence exists, or that anyone on the coaching staff had any idea about what Stalions was doing, but IF that evidence exists, avoiding the hearing and taking the 3 game ban makes sense. It is, of course, only one possibility among several reasons why they accepted the 3 games.
**Edit**
Well after seeing the other post about how no new information came out, and nothing implicates any of the other coaches...no idea why Michigan dropped their case. Why go through all the trouble of releasing scathing statements and having attorneys work on the TRO for a week just to drop it less than 24 hours before the hearing. Something isn't making sense.
Doubt McElwain knew anything about Stalions being there. My guess is that he knew someone who was or used to be on Central's staff who could hook him up with a sideline pass.
I think Willow Run. Isn't that where the basketball team's plane overshot the runway?
Court doesn't have to be open for a judge to hear a motion.
Ex parte court hearing. Court house doesn't have to be open for a judge to hear the injunction. If that were the case, all anyone would have to do is file whatever they want right at the end of the day prior to a holiday.
That is what is kind of infuriating. Pettiti has a pretty simple way out of this, which is deferring until the NCAA completes it's investigation. I don't see or understand why he is going after Harbaugh when the university/football program would be the entity violating that vague sportmanship rule. Which, if Michigan violated, Rutgers, OSU, and Purdue did as well. Seems like the easiest thing would be deferring to the NCAA investigation/waiting until it is complete, and then fining Michigan, Rutgers, OSU, and Purdue the same amount while also making clear penalties for similar violations in the future would only be increased. Pettiti made this into such a big deal and dragged this out for so long that he painted himself into a corner.
I think the NCAA would try to put this under the "spirit of the rule" bullshit. Like the idea of a member of the coaching staff not being allowed to record/in person scout isn't allowed but a member of the coaching staff paying someone else to do it, while not specifically listed in the rules, kind of violates them? I mean I get the argument why this is a pretty murky grey area we are talking about, but the NCAA has been so f'n toothless these last few years, I see this as them trying to show what "power" they may have by attacking one of their biggest and most popular brands. Honestly, I think this entire thing is petty bullshit. If you didn't like Michigan before, you think this is a huge deal, if you're everyone else, it isn't all that much to get upset about. Those who have compared this to the Astros or Patriots, do they understand that nothing of consequence happened in either situation? The World Champion banners are still hanging, zero punishment to the players involved and the Astros manager that was fired, is now the manager for the Tigers.
out of touch with his own importance
That is exactly it. It has nothing to do with tearing down the program, this is simply ego. How dare the program not take my opinion and thoughts more seriously.
Didn't JUB talk about Stapleton doing whatever he could to make sure RichRod failed in one of his books? Did Stapleton ever go after him for that?
Good on them, that is exactly what you do when you believe your play call signs have been compromised.
No, it's about control. By all accounts, this is a very wealthy man who I'm sure has a history of having his input valued and getting his way. Michigan no longer putting much value in his thoughts, I'm sure, pissed him off. How could the institution he attended and is a booster for not value what he has to say? Going out of his way to sabotage RichRod and now with Harbaugh is his way of "showing" the university, see, look what these guys I didn't want you to hire have done? You should have listened to me because the guys I wanted you to hire would never have done anything to violate the NCAA rules. This reeks of rich pouty asshole not getting his way and doing what he can to show a program what happens when you don't "value" his input.
Doubt it because the NCAA hasn't actually "said" anything other than that Michigan is being investigated for sign stealing. It is not like they have come out and plainly stated that Harbaugh is a cheater, nor would they ever. Also though the NCAA knows that mere public opinion is enough so just by making the investigation public pretty well know that the media and other NCAA fans will pick it up and run with it. I mean, if Michigan was sending a staffer to physically attend and record future opposing teams' signs, then yea, that is against the rules. It seems like that would be an incredibly stupid thing to do. If Michigan sent someone who observed future opposing team signs and took notes about it, that would still be against the rules, but I would also have a hard time believing other programs do not do it as well. If the NCAA wants to get Harbaugh out of coaching college football, no doubt putting him through this bullshit would make jumping to the NFL look more and more attractive.
To be fair, it's pretty easy to know what play the opposing team is going to run when the kicker or punter jogs into the field...
Gardner led the NFL in pass breakups with 20 and only allowed 1 TD. He also allowed a TOTAL of 54 yards when in man coverage, which equates to 3.4 yards a game. A corner, who only allows 3.4 yards in man coverage...a game...that's unreal. To be fair, idk how often the Jets were in man coverage, even still, that's only one big play he allowed yardage-wise. Hutch was fantastic and when you compare his rookie year to those of the Bosa's and the Watt's he's certainly in their company. No question in my mind he's going to be an outstanding d-lineman for the Lions. Not much you can do for Def Rookie of the Year when your competition is arguably one of the best corners in the NFL already at a position that is notorious for being tough for rookies to adapt to.
I don't think Corum has much of a chance to win, personally. Michigan's OLine has been so dominant that I feel voters will view him as partially a product of the system. I mean, Edwards is averaging 6.7 yards a carry, which may lead some to further conclude that it's less Corum and more the line. Not saying that is or isn't the case, just pointing out how some voters might view it. Not that that has hurt Bama running backs in the past, but this award does seem to favor QBs now. He has a shot, but he's going to need some explosive, long plays, which he hasn't had many of this year.
Michigan is, literally, a historic program, and when your program goes back over 100 years, those rivalry games are just a little more special. College sports are (or used to given the current landscape) what drive fans and appeal to viewers. The "arrogance" is that some/most, but not all, consider the program up there with the likes of OSU, Bama, Florida, and USC, when it just hasn't been that. Each of those other schools have had sustained success contending for national titles on a yearly basis. That just isn't what Michigan has done since the 40's? Michigan, as a modern football program (and even dating back to Bo) is one that contends for the Big Ten title just about every year, and then contends for a national championship once within a 5-10 year span. I don't think it is unfair to say that Michigan "arrogance" is simply tied to how historical a program is, and nowadays, people just don't really care about it since, until recently, Michigan has not been a title contending team.
Completely agree. And I think the Vikings job is probably the better one, honestly. You have Jefferson, and the defense isn't too bad. The Dolphins have Miami, but that division, with Buffalo and the Patriots...I'd take my chances against the Packers, Bears, and Lions.
I can get what Ross was saying with the idea that, he, himself, would not be the guy taking Harbaugh away from Michigan. However, if Harbaugh was the one who was getting ready to leave and it's the Vikings, then of course I could see Ross coming in and being like, "well, shit, if you're leaving Michigan anyway, then come here". Ross doesn't "take" Harbaugh away in that circumstance.
All that said, I think it would be pretty shitty for Harbaugh to leave after the great year he just had, but I also get it in the way that this is a business decision. I just always thought Michigan was more than business to him, but this happens so often that I really shouldn't be surprised.
It because Suh left for a ton of money that the Lions would not/probably could not, afford to match. (They also had the chance to foresee this coming and draft Aaron Donald but decided not to). Stafford did as well as he could and requested a trade since the team was going to clearly be rebuilding...again, and he, rightfully, did not want to be around for it. Calvin and Barry, to some "quit" on the team, again, to some, not to me. I get, entirely, why the both did what they did, when they did. Some fans feels some sort of way about it and feel like they betrayed the team, but I can't hold years of being beaten physically and mentally against them when taking into account their long term health.
I don't think anyone is giving him a "free pass" it is just that there are some legitimate questions about his mental health and how some of the hits he has taken have impacted his decision making.
He was claiming his foot/ankle were bothering him and was told that if he didn't go in then to leave, so he left...albeit running then doing jumping jacks is not the best way to indicate you have an injury to your feet. Can't see any other team taking a shot on him now.
Harbaugh makes those exact same comments in that exact same situation and everyone on here would be loving it. This is the double standard bullshit is what makes the college football rivalries great. How much fun is this game going to be going forward.
I like that Mel Tucker makes those sort of needled jabs. Harbaugh does and has done it to various degrees so having a rival coach doing it too will only add fire to the rivalry. Tucker and Harbaugh could be a pretty fun back and forth going forward. I don't like MSU, but even still, I'm not sure how someone could come away from what Mel Tucker has done and not be somewhat impressed.
I laughed because I thought it was a joke, but if it isn't then, I'd say it is maybe just slightly more difficult than playing NCAA...
I think it has been part of the problem. I'm not sure if you can say there is ONE thing that has been the issue, but more or less a series of big things they just haven't been able to do. The offense is just putrid. How you can recruit all those highly touted receivers and then NOT throw them the fucking ball is just maddening.
Lawd! Can....can he play linebacker?
Well...He's the linebackers coach so idk how great they have been at that position. They also have Lamar Jackson, who, since he doesn't play linebacker...or defense...I'm going to say that MacDonald had no had in developing him. Maybe he's a good coach, maybe he isn't, I honestly do not know and I don't think any of us really will for some time, but I would not equate that the success of the Ravens over the last few years was due to MacDonald. Plenty of position coaches from good teams have gone on to be not great head coaches and coordinators. Personally, this hire doesn't excite me. It's going to be the guy's first time calling defensive plays and I think there is an adjustment from the NFL to college. I would have preferred to have gotten some up and coming coach who is a proven recruiter, but given Harbaugh's rumored (is it even rumored anymore?) contract, I could see how someone like that would not jump at the chance to coach the defense for a year only to then be looking for a new job a year or two from now if Harbaugh leaves. I don't love it, but I can understand it.
Ha, shit, they've been giving money to not win since 2008 (with one or two decent seasons thrown in there).
I'm honestly baffled why any highly rated WR would come to Michigan right now especially if Bama is in the mix too. Michigan has recruited some really good WR prospects the last few years and for whatever reason, they haven't lived up to the hype. Then you compare that to Alabama who seem to have one or two wide outs getting taken in the first two rounds of the draft every year. It'd be cool if he picks Michigan, but man, I can't see it happening.
I agree. He ended up getting drafted in the 4th round, which isn't bad, but I think I remember him more or less having to sit for a bit before he got steady playing time just because Bama was so stacked. Had he gone to Michigan I think he would have gotten more playing time early on. Whether that would have helped or hurt idk, but he could have been a stand out piece at Michigan opposed to just another top d-lineman at Bama. Was actually pretty glad when the Lions drafted him, just wish he could stay healthy.
I thought it was the hiring of Les Miles that he ruined. I believe Harbaugh had come out before then and said he was not interested in the job which was after he kind of bashed their academic standards. I had heard Les Miles was going to be the coach until Herbstreit came out premature which Les wanted to keep quite so he could coach LSU in the title game. I might be misremembering though.
I mean, have none of you thought of the idea of Michigan not playing the game and keeping OSU out of the playoff? (at least in theory) I saw more than a few comments about it in other posts on this site. As far as OSU alums who are analysts go, Herbstreit is probably one of the better ones. I think I read somewhere that he moved his family to Tennessee partly because people in Ohio were always giving him shit. Also, I got a little respect for him when he was one of the only analysts talking about how Michigan should be in the National Title game the year they lost on the road to #1 OSU. Then what happened? Michigan got wrecked by USC in the Rose Bowl. I don't love Herbstreit, but I don't hate him either.
Was scrolling to see if anyone brought him up. I think he'd be a solid hire. He was brought up for other GM roles and seemed to have success when he was working in front offices in the early 2000's. Granted, we've been more exposed to him since he's on ESPN, but he always comes across as having a no nonsense approach. I also think the fact that he was a former player can be a benefit, at least when you are trying to change the culture of a team. I would not be upset if they hired him.
The team is just tough to watch and looks lost on defense. They've recruited well and not developing the talent has been a major downfall. Harbaugh does not deserve a pass, not with his paycheck and how long he's been here. All that said, I would not hate to see him back for a final year of his deal, but I also do not think, for recruiting purposes, it would be smart to have a coach's fate rest with the final year of his contract. It's a tough spot because I can get behind some of the arguments about losing some kids due to opting out and it just being a completely shitty year in general. I'd really like to see how Milton does next year and IF Harbaugh is finally able to develop a qb here. Idk though, firing him after this year is completely justified. The team looks sloppy and worse, they almost look complacent, which I think is a direct reflection of the coach. Harbaugh does not seem to be getting fired up and he looks, I don't want to say tired, but annoyed? If you can't have a guy coaching in the final year of his deal, then he has to be gone, because there is no way you can possibly justify extending him, you just can't. Idk who potential coaching candidates would be, but give it to a guy who deserves and wants it regardless of there being any sort of Michigan connection.
I truly do not understand Harbaugh's tenure at Michigan. It seemed like all the teams he had at Stanford and even the 49ers were so fired up and ready for the games, and since he's been here, it's been the opposite. The entire tone/mood of this game seemed to be Michigan just being nonchalant like "we got this, we are the better team, no worries". Good teams don't just play bullshit football for 3 quarters then flip a switch at the end and win, they blow out teams from start to finish. Like, I keep hearing people say "we'll If Harbaugh can't turn the program around who can?" or "who could they get that is better?" My answer to that would be someone who legitimately wants the job and prepares week in and week out like his job depended on it. Harbaugh came here with a massive contract and the University has given him a looooot of free rein since he's been here. It honestly feels like Harbaugh knows this is more or less his job until he doesn't want it and the teams have been playing like it. Instead of wanting to justify his huge contract, he seems complacent, like he has nothing to prove anymore. This was a job he came into where he had really high expectations and he has not come close to delivering.
I've been impressed with how quickly he got Minnesota to where they are. It was really, kind of a perfect spot for him to jump to from Western. Can more or less keep the same recruiting grounds and connections, in a bigger, better program, in a Power 5, and are in the division of the B1G that is by far easier with no real yearly powerhouse aside from Wisconsin if you really want to consider them a power house. He's done well and will be able to be pretty picky if he decides to leave.
I agree with pretty much everything you said. He could be more or less Kirk Ferentz in the sense of just staying with that program and it being his program for better (or in Ferentz's case recently, for worse). I only disagree with the idea that he will NEVER compete for a national title. I don't think he will, but I do not think it is impossible to see scenarios where he gets them into the playoff. I don't think the chances are good, but at Llyod Christmas exclaimed, "so you're telling me there's a chance", and I wouldn't even necessarily put Fleck and Minnesota's chances at 1/1000000. If Fleck chooses to stay at Minnesota for the next 20 years (I can't see him doing that but who knows) then I would not say it is impossible that within those two decades he has them in the playoffs or in the B1G title game where the winner goes to the playoffs, once or twice in that span. Never is too strong, highly-very unlikely, I'd agree with.
Totally agree with this. Didn't some things come out after last season about how players were annoyed that Shea could do whatever he wanted and seemed to have a much longer leash than anyone else on the team? I really think Dylan thought Shea would come in for one year then be gone and the team would be his. Hell, maybe even the Michigan staff thought that as well. As soon as he announced he was coming back, I was expecting Dylan to transfer. It kind of says a lot that he didn't, but he had been expected to be the next starting QB since he came in. Like, the QB position under Harbaugh has been dreadful, so you hate to see talented guys just leave, especially considering we never got to really see all that Dylan had to offer. I really hope all this means that everyone is sold on Milton, because if we have to go through another couple years of bad QB play, it's going to be really rough.
Completely agree. I really wonder if, in the long run, the program would have been better off not grabbing Shea as a transfer, or at least, had he stayed for only one year. Dylan's throws just look soooo much better than Patterson's and I had thought he would have been able to develop into a really nice QB. The coaching staff knows more than me, and you'd hate to not grab a 5 star transfer who won't have to sit out a year, so I get it overall. Still disappointing not to get to see all of what Dylan had to offer. Hope this means Milton has really come along though.
The risk isn't to the players, it to them getting it, bringing it back to their campus, and passing it around. It's like you don't know how a virus spreads. Sure, possibly minimal risk to the players, but then you get an outbreak at a college campus, which in turn spreads to the city. I mean, Don Brown is 65 years old, it isn't like the players are the only ones at risk here.
Not having a concise plan from the start is to blame for this. Whether it is Trump or the NCAA, the complete lack of leadership and letting states and conferences fend for themselves has been a detriment to the country and college sports. Isn't the Federal Government and the NCAA around to be the larger governing bodies? How stupid is it to have different conferences coming up with different standards and ideas when they should all be unified working together to do what is best for EVERYONE. It just blows my mind that we have these organizations and a Federal Government whose purpose, among other things, is to oversee the country, and yet, they both just passed the buck and left conferences and states to look around at each other, shrug, and let them try to come up with their own plans. What the fuck is the point of the NCAA if not to help oversee and unify everyone toward the same goal of doing what is needed, across the board, to make sure college sports would be safe to play in the fall?
I can't even imagine what it would be like if I were heading into my freshman year. I'd have to think a lot of kids/parents are opting for a gap year or can simply take some required classes online to get them out of the way. Such a bizarre time right now.
Sounds like a perfect mix of a low center of gravity with a solid base. What am I missing?
I agree. Sure, there are ways that this could work, but the NCAA hasn't stepped up and the conferences are all looking around at each other for answers. If you put the players in a bubble, had them take only remote classes, made sure they did not interact with anyone outside of the bubble and had access to a ton of testing with quick results then sure, it might work. But how many schools can actually afford to do that? It isn't like a lot of these guys are going to be in the NFL so getting an education, which is kind of the point of college, is a necessity. We all want to watch them play, but they have to see what it is like when students are on campus. It's a little easier to keep track of an entire team right now opposed to when 20 somethings want to do something other than sit in a room/building with only their teammates and actually want to go out and do things. What happens if someone on a Thursday or Friday tests positive? Does the whole team get quarantined? Will the opposing team even want to play? There are ways where this could have possibly worked, but no one stepped up to direct exactly how that can be done. Isn't that the idea behind the fucking NCAA? They give more of a shit about bagel spreads and athletes using campus water to wash their car than they do about trying to figure out how to operate during a pandemic.
The choice should be theirs and no one else's.
I mean, you have to think this pandemic has an impact on all the recruiting. Maybe Todd feels, with all that is going on, it's better to go make some money right now. Maybe JC would rather stay closer to home than move across the country in the middle of a pandemic. To say it had no impact, I think, would be a mistake, but as to whether or not either play for Michigan had this all not happened, is anyone's guess. You can't not go after good players. Not like Howard lost these guys to Duke or Kentucky, he lost them to ASU, the same school JC's brother plays for, and another to overseas where he can make some good money. Both decisions make sense for those individual recruits.
Did you mean to reply to me? Because what you responded with was not anything I brought up. I have no idea how Peyton will be. I could see him being really good and I could see him being pretty bad. None of us really know until we see/hear him.
Not really sure what anything you said had to do with why ESPN let Tiricho go or how Eli could potentially be a good broadcaster.
I actually think Eli would make a pretty good broadcaster. I know he doesn't have the reputation his brother does, but when he's been given the opportunity to be himself, he's pretty funny and definitely wittier than Peyton, although I'd have to imagine the way Peyton could break down a game would be appealing to watch.
Maybe ESPN should have kept Tirico. Seems odd they'd let him go to NBC then a few years later try to get Al Michaels. I mean, NBC signed Tirico to become Michael's replacement so they must have felt Michaels was on his way out. Why ESPN would let Tirico go then try to get the old guy he's set to replace is just, confusing.