Z vs Winston
Hark back a few years ago when Michigan abandoned its pursuit of Winston in favor of taking Zavier (who expressed late interest). I’m sure the details of that recruiting dance are more complicated than that, but – watching Z’s game and growth compared to Winston’s – I’m so happy things worked out the way they did. We got the better point guard.
Edwards, Carr and Winston are going to be great offensive players in the conference (already are really) going forward. Glad we have the type of player that can mitigate them.
All 3 (winston, edwards, simpson) will probably be 4 year players. All 3 will be very good to great college basketball players. They each offer slighly different skillsets too, but I'd be happy with any of them.
Well just about everyone that plays under Izzo ends up a 4 year player, no matter how highly rated. :-)
You left one important thing out. You come to IZZO as a 5 star but after four years of de-velopment. You leave as a complete three star.
I wonder who will be developing MSU's players after this offseason. I have a feeling more will come from the FBI/Nasser fallout and will be really surprised if Izzo still has a job next season.
I don't know man, their fans really do not give a shit. They're framing this as a hackjob by ESPN and ignoring all of the facts that show otherwise. So I think Izzo is safe.
Beilein will be the reason IZZO will continue his career after retirement doing Roland’s commercials.
I think Izzo is going to make it out of this, because there is so much fight from all levels there.
I also want him to be there one more year minimum, so Beilein can sweep him next year to get .500 against him. If we would get him in the tournament, then maybe Michigan could be above .500 against state under Beilein.
Yeah, well, it's hard for them to give up the regular salary.
Z is a lion of a man. He leads this team and sets the tone defensively. Here is a very good article talking about the rivalry between the Simpson and Winston that really colors the background of their recruitment:
And another about his leadership on defense:
https://theathletic.com/260616/2018/03/03/the-story-of-zavier-simpson-a…
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that first article was fun to read knowing the outcome of the game.
I didn't know Edwards was in the same class as Z and Winston. That guy scares me more than Winston.
I just remember freaking out b/c that led to MSU getting Winston and Langford while we we're fresh off of losing Tyus Battle to Syracuse.
But holy hell has Z improved. It's been Walton-esque for sure.
Has been off the charts. Both Walton and Z improved in a big way down the stretch. Should pay dividends for recruiting going forward.
It's almost like it's a coaching thing after watching Burke, Walton, and now X develop.
it is. Pgs make a huge leap in year 2 under Beilein. remember Darius "the butterfly" Morris? or the year we had CJ Lee and David Merrit at the point? It's a very difficult position to learn
SPIKE
Z, no x.
He goes by X as a nickname despite spelling his name Zavier. His father and friends on the B1G network background show all call him X.
I am nowhere near your lawn.
I think Langford would have been a great player at Michigan. He's wasted at MSU.
If I remember correctly, taking Battle pushed Langford to MSU. And then we lost Battle. No?
Yup, didn’t have an open scholarship once Battle committed.
Is how good would Winston be under Beilein. Winston's biggest short coming is his D, something that I'm not sure he would have been to mitigate largely at Michigan (and something he should be able to improve under Izzo, but hasn't yet). But his offense is legit, how incredible could it have been under Beilein?
because their rim protection is so strong that it's not a disaster when players blow right past him. Stopping penetration had been the biggest issue with Michigan's defense in the recent past. He'd make our offense better, but Simpson makes our team better.
This is an interesting contrast. Simpson keys a team that is defensively one of the best in the country (!), something that would not be likely if Winston was the one on the floor. And our defense is the reason the team is so good relative to the offensive talent that is present.
I'm not an expert here but I agree with you. I don't think Winston's additional offensive tools would make up for losing Simpson's lockdown defense. And, FT shooting aside, I don't think it's close.
Figured out, especially at the line, whoa nelly
It seems like that new routine to help him shoot more over his right shoulder is helping. Hope that he can continue improving that through the tournament.
Winston would have been under JB. He could have been an AA this.
but it is so nice having a PG that can beat his man anytime he wants
Yup, that's the big difference on offense (and Cassius clearly being the superior shooter). Z is the much better defender. I'm not sure if Cassius will ever become as good of a defender as Walton or Burke, and that's not saying much.
That crossover yesterday with the hook shot after was a thing of beauty
Winston can suck on z’s nuts
I am going with the hot take of Winston would be a much better player if under Beilein than under Izzo. But glad to have Z and how he is developing has been incredible.
There are some people that only post here when Beilein does bad. Ya know like recruiting wise? I wonder how his keyboard feels when he can’t type Beilein has missed on sooooo many top recruits and how he cannot close with the Mamba types. I’m sure he’s quite sad of our success. Despite how bad our recruiting has declined with all the top 5 star recruits! Lol
I didn't think Mo Bamba's name needed further squishing
forget Bohannon w Iowa. Dude can score, and Z blanketed him and forced him into 3-14 shooting. We lose that game without Z, in my opinion.
He was absolutely phenomenal through the tourney. Amazing how far he has come from earlier in the year, when he wasn't even starting.
With Dejulius coming in next year, we are going to have some great point guard play for many years to come...
Think about 2020. Senior Z and Soph Dejulius coming off the bench. Ohhhh man.
I love his hook passes in the lane to the big men at the basket. They are a thing of beauty.
I'm confident he'll fix his FT stroke. Can't wait for more BUFF MAN STRUTTING
That was awesome!! I still can't figure out who was more proud of that play - Z for his pass, or Teske for the thunderslam!
that got the lesser coach. I would bet a lot that had Winston chose Beilein he'd be a lot more complete.
This is true. And as I said above, I think also very true of Langford.
Needs to create a meme of Z's face in a grim reaper costume in a graveyard lording over gravestones with names of Bohanon, Palmer, Winston and Edwards.
Winston is a good player, but give me Z every time. Winston has one elite trait (his three point shooting). Z is an elite passer, can score off the dribble, and spent the entire tourney locking down some of the Big Ten's best guards.
give him 23 points, and still win going away.
We have just taken away the guards on the opposition entirely. And Beilein's offense puts a lot of opposing big men on the bench (yes, I'm talking to you, Nick Ward).
think of where Zavier Simpson was at this time last season, or even early in the season. People were bemoaning his average-at-best play. Of course, he clearly blossomed, as PGs do under Beilein.
I imagine it would have been much the same with Cassius Winston, if he were a Wolverine. Take that "one elite trait" and pair it with elite player development and training and you'd have a heckuva PG.
Not to say I'm not more than happy with Simpson, but Beilein & Co. could have done wonders with Winston.
Burke became a national player of the year in his second year at Michigan. So when we see a point guard who has a decent freshman year struggle in their second year (Walton, Simpson) and take a little longer to develop, we assume bust or go nuts. It really is amazing how good Michigan's point guards become and how much they develop and grow. The attention to every detail is so critical. I also think Beilein knows who to push and how. He knows Moe is confidant and has no problem telling him that he stinks, knowing that Moe can take it and move on. With Irvin and Walton, he knew to give Walton the confidance to just take the shot, and take the pressure off of Irvin. He doesn't coddle players, but I think his honesty in telling the players what they are doing wrong and giving them the chance to fix it is huge.
Izzo's players look great when they are running the court and playing loose, yet Izzo get's them into sets that they can't get out of, and seems to bench players for bad play without instruction and getting them back out there. Izzo and Brian Kelly remind me of each other somewhat. Both very successful coaches who seem to break some players down when they don't execute.
It's almost as if Z has emerged from a cocoon as a completely different player. Can't think of an appropriate moniker for this scenario, though. B1G Network color commentators, can you please help us adopt a nickname for Z that properly captures his transformation?
(Somewhere, Darius Morris shutters)
Winston would have been a good fit here. I believe he'd be a much better player now if he was a Wolverine.
I don't follow basketball super close, but Izzo seems always get 5* guys who hang around East Lansing forever because they never develop significantly. Meanwhile, Beilein is scooping up your 3*/4* tweener guys and they're all going to the NBA. I wonder if Z > Winston isn't because Beilein > Izzo and not because it was a mistake in the recruiting rankings
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— Alejandro Zúñiga (@ByAZuniga) March 5, 2018