OT: John Oliver Goes in on Owners Finessing Cities for Stadium Cash
in American public life.
Not even close.
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Healthcare
JO knocked another one out of the park though
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get their palms greased making the deals. But something that voters left, right, and center can agree is costly and corrupt. Hardly THE biggest scandal in American life, but among them, absolutely. People feel allegiance to home teams, and pressure to back the deals. But any thinking person who digs into this subject can quickly ascertain how troubled they tend to be.
Note the word "among."
Needed to be said. Ilitch ain't the saint many people in Detroit want to believe he is.
Some of these stadium stories are just disgusting. The Tampa Bay Bucs' stadium was 100% built on public money. It should double as a freaking park yet Malcolm Glazer can open and close the doors as he pleases.
I don't fault the owners for using loopholes to their advantage. Any smart businessman would do the same. Maybe if our lawmakers were held accountable, meaningful change could be made to the system that allows it to happen.
President Obama made a proposal to end taxpayer-subsidized stadiums, but Neil DeMause wrote a great column (it's a great read) explaing why it won’t be close to enough to end stadium subsidies entirely.
People who worked with him in the 60's and 70's know what he kind of man he is.
Nice anonymous, vague internet mudslinging there.
He makes a good point, but the Brits also wasted away a ton of money on the London Olympics.
He talked about Olympic/World Cup expenditures already in the prior 2 episodes, so he's not being a hypocrite.
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Thank God we have British-born John Oliver scolding Americans about what horrible people we are, week after week.
could be best measured by taking a test.
Oh, wait, it can't.
Have you served America, BornSinner? Have you given anything back to the country other than your opinion of how it ought to be ran?
There's something to be said for questioning the direction or decisions of the political leaders of a community. That's a good and necessary element of any democracy. But John Oliver, like Stewart and Colbert, talks way above his level of knowledge about subjects he has only the least bit familiarity with. For example, in his segment on the NCAA he never considers the wide discrepancy in monies earned between Power 5 teams and the rest of FBS. To truly analyze a problem you have to look at the entire picture, not just part of it.
In this case I happen to agree. I enjoyed the part where he calls out Illitch because I think Illitch is an unscrupulous sack of shit.
His argument was fallacious, but your manner is just plain obnoxious. Your grasp of the English language also is in some doubt as well.
So you claim the argument is fallacious with your own fallacious argument (ad hominem, straw man).
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did you read what you posted?
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...so I may not be speaking to what Oliver says. But have there been any situations in which teams have been offered new stadiums without first threatening - implicity or explicitly - to leave town?
My only point was that teams aren't having $300 million gifts dumped on their doorsteps without twisting some arms.
Where I would and do take exception is when business and business leaders cry about keeping government out of their way but then milk federal, state, and local government for as much as they can get. I don't know enough about any given pro football owner to say whether he is or isn't guilty of that.
because it benefitted Vermont's local defense industries.
The truth is that politicians will support projects that seemingly go against what they "stand for" because it benefits key local supporters. That's the nature of politics.
and hope you don't mind me piggybacking off your comment but I would add this...
what makes it look so bad in Detroit is as Oliver pointed out....this gets voted and approved on and then the City of Detroit files for bankruptcy. That's not a good look. But as he mentioned...its not a reason to hate on the owners...but it does leave a sour taste and stinks. And yes....to decry government regulation and is restricting and the tax code is so horrible business have to headquarter overseas but then turn around and ask for the tax incentives and cry poverty is shady.....
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I think it has more to do with the whole "build me a stadium or I'm moving the team that's been here for 60 years to X" line.
If it really was a "Hey Guys, I want to build a new stadium. Can you help me out here with some tax breaks/funding etc.?" and everything was approved ala a referendum than things could be seen a little more on the up and up.
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A majority of the investment is being made by private investors, and the project represents one of the largest private investments for an Arena project in North America. The public consideration for the Arena plan is “self-financing,” as the debt service on the City and County’s $200 million contribution will be funded by tax collections that would not exist if the Arena were not built, and NBA and NHL teams were not returned to the market. Any shortfalls are paid and guaranteed by the private investors. Unprecedented safeguards have been put in place to protect the City’s contribution and insure that taxpayer dollars are not at risk, and that even under the direst circumstances the City and County will be repaid in full.
http://www.sonicsarena.com/info/summary-sonics-arena
Also, the MOU requires the purchase of an NBA team before they can start building the arena.
in many ways sports franchises are like public utilities and quasi-utilities, like Comcast and Time Warner. Its not like a city can just dial up another franchise.
Perhaps not, but maybe we should be at a point in society where we stop offering rich people free things at society's expense.
They asked, and they received. Blame the giver not the asker.
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Where in my comment did I blame the owners? Let me help you out...I didn't.
But since you seem so adamant about defending them, I'll bite.
To think that they are not at least partially to blame for these bad public deals is either blind or disingenuous. "They asked, and they received". Really? If I hold a gun to your head and kindly ask you to give me your wallet, should you be blamed when you do. Please.
Everytime I go to the ballot bax to voice my displeasure I realize my choices are candidate A who is a self interested person whose campaign was mostly funded by an economically elite sliver of society (for whom he/she will work tirelessly to pay back in the next 4-6 years via action), surrounded by armies of lobbyists who also are working tirelessly for said economically elite (and corp America).... and worked together with the "other side" to redistrict the state into a bunch of non competitive districts....and has a donkey next to his/her name....
Or...
candidate B who is a self interested person whose campaign was mostly funded by an economically elite sliver of society (for whom he/she will work tirelessly to pay back in the next 4-6 years via action), surrounded by armies of lobbyists who also are working tirelessly for said economically elite (and corp America)..... and worked together with the "other side" to redistrict the state into a bunch of non competitive districts....and has an elephant next to his/her name....
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So please let me know how to voice my displeasure other than wasting my vote on candidates C thru H who get their combined 8% of the vote. I'll hang up and listen.
There is also the demagogues who get themselves elected by demonizing corporations, socialists, Mexicans, Muslims, Christians, gays, whites, blacks, women,etc
Populism is a potent factor in any democracy and often quite damaging. For some reason we focus solely on the damaging effects of excessive corporate influence whilst ignoring the dangers of Populism. I think that is a grave mistake.
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