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12/11/2018 - 2:35pm On #3...I mean, I played…

On #3...I mean, I played college sports. I wasn't going pro, so I understand that's a huge difference here...but I cannot imagine my team going out to play a game that I was with for 3-4 years, I'm completely healthy and I just say "nah". Just the mindset of it seems perplexing. 

12/11/2018 - 2:33pm Dude. 

Getting a free meal…


Getting a free meal or some free gear or something isn't the same thing as someone giving you mid/high four figure or five figure payments. 

12/11/2018 - 2:24pm The only way I can see this…

The only way I can see this happening (and if someone already mentioned it, my bad, wasn't going to read all the way through) is if Bama flipped him on the basis of the Harbaugh to the NFL rumors. 

Otherwise, this is silly. 

12/11/2018 - 9:12am A finish of Keegan, Johnson…

A finish of Keegan, Johnson and one of the LB would be a very nice class. But one that keeps Michigan firmly in the second tier.

If they pull Harrison, that's about where you need to be to continue trending upward as a program.

12/10/2018 - 6:59pm Michigan, but flips Bama…

Michigan, but flips Bama next Thursday.

12/10/2018 - 1:56pm Man, I loved Grand Rapids…

Man, I loved Grand Rapids when I lived there after college 4-5 years ago. Only gotten better since. Perfect sized city, very walkable, incredibly short uber rides if its cold. 

Actually, since I still get over there pretty frequently, I agree with you. Shitty place. No one move there. Go to Detroit or Chicago instead. 

12/10/2018 - 1:03pm He had one drop that people…

He had one drop that people were talking about: Indiana. 

Then the OSU game happened and suddenly he was being talked about like he was a walk-on scrub. 

12/10/2018 - 11:54am 1. The Gentry isn't good…

1. The Gentry isn't good angle appeared entirely after the OSU game. Up until that, he had a very good season and looked like the best TE in the conference. He was a weapon all year so it makes sense they would use him against OSU. 

2. The first drop in the 3Q was low, but it was open. Its a straight drop. The second was a 30 yard completion up the middle that's a little high that he just missed. Honestly, rewatching it, he gets hurt on the play, but its baffling because the OSU guys that hit him pull up appropriately. He didn't get wrecked or anything. Its just a catchable ball that he drops. These were not hard catches. 

3. Its just agree to disagree about the offense being broken. All year the plays have been there to be made and at certain times people just haven't made them. 

12/10/2018 - 11:00am If you gave Harbaugh Saban's…

If you gave Harbaugh Saban's recruits from year one on, he'd be Nick Saban. 

Saban flamed out of the NFL. Harbaugh went to three straight NFC title games. 

Harbaugh built Stanford into a winning program from nothing. Saban basically held serve at MSU. 

There's plenty of evidence that Harbaugh is elite, but right now he's competing with one arm tied behind his back against the top four or five programs in country when it comes to recruiting. 

12/10/2018 - 10:51am Similar to Northwestern, the…

Similar to Northwestern, the point is the plays were there to be made and weren't. Zach Gentry played his worst game of the year at the exact wrong time. 


12/10/2018 - 10:23am I'm not sure it lost the…

I'm not sure it lost the game, but it definitely helped put the game out of reach quicker than it should have been. 

We're talking about extending drives in a game where Michigan needed to score on each possession because the defense self-destructed. They had the plays necessary to do that, but Gentry blew it. 

I think there are tweaks to the offense that could be made, I'd like to see them pass more on first down and otherwise, but people are pretend like Michigan just went "run, run, pass" and that's not the case.

Three 4th quarter drives when it went from 24-19 to 41-19:

Pass, run, pass (punt)

Run (14 yards), run, pass, pass, run, pass, pass (Gentry drop) (punt block TD)

Run, pass (Gentry drop), pass (interception)


12/10/2018 - 9:25am Yeah. I mean, the offense…

Yeah. I mean, the offense had three long scoring drives in the first half. I get that you need TDs and not FGs, but one of those FGs was a ball Zach Gentry should have caught (pattern emerging). Not terrible.

In the 3rd quarter, its 27-19 and Zach Gentry drops what would have been 1st and 10 at the Ohio State 40(ish). Next play is the blocked punt and its 34-19. 

Next drive, Zach Gentry has a ball hit him in the hands on second down and doesn't make the catch. Next play is the interception and Ohio State has the ball at the 20. 41-19. 

Really, if Zach Gentry catches those passes, its probably a shootout all the way through. Michigan still probably loses, but its more an Oklahoma losing to Texas type of thing as opposed to an out and out disaster. 

12/10/2018 - 7:28am Right, the game was over…

Right, the game was over. The defense made exactly one second half stop

12/10/2018 - 5:39am What actually happened is…

What actually happened is Zach Gentry dropped two first downs and immediately after each a disaster play happened resulting in a 27-19 game quickly becoming a 41-19 game.

12/09/2018 - 9:13pm Well, next year is pretty…

Well, next year is pretty much the last chance to make the leap. Probably going to have to be on the offensive side of the ball as well.

12/09/2018 - 4:03pm Ohio State recruits just…

Ohio State recruits just fine. Perhaps there is something gigantic you are missing, perhaps in the form of six figure payments to players.

12/09/2018 - 2:55pm Oh okay. 

Well, then given…

Oh okay. 

Well, then given that Harbaugh took Stanford to 12-1 from a laughingstock and made the Super Bowl in the NFL, then proceeded to go 10-3 his first season, I would expect him to have the #1 class in the country hands down after his first season if Nick Saban ended up at #3 with 24 4*+ players. Let's check:

Huh. #8. And 14 guys who were 4* or better. And a lower player rating too. 

To your point, sure its a part of the story. The much bigger part is the guy is able to pay better than anyone else. 

12/09/2018 - 2:47pm How did Alabama "improve"…

How did Alabama "improve" you complete fucking moron? 

By going out and getting the best players money could buy. 

That's how you go 7-6 and pull the 3rd ranked recruiting class in the country that contains 3 5* players and 21 4* players. 


12/09/2018 - 2:15pm Right. And Michigan might…

Right. And Michigan might have had some of those guys if they offered them the same level of under the table benefits that programs like OSU and Alabam do. 

12/09/2018 - 2:14pm The heart of the issue is…

The heart of the issue is that Alabama built an immensely successful program by ignoring the rules, thus creating a situation where it makes total sense that a player like Daxton Hill would want to go there even if it has nothing to do with him receiving illegal benefits. And that Michigan is at a disadvantage with these type of players because of that. 

If you can't acknowledge that, then you should just shut the fuck up. 

12/09/2018 - 2:10pm You really are this dumb. 

You really are this dumb. 

Yes, Daxton Hill might be the reason for the timing of this thread. 

But all of your posts miss the point of WHY Alabama was able to pull Daxton Hill from Michigan. And there's no point in arguing further.

You'll just drool and bang your head against the table and then breathe out "saban, good playoff. harbaugh, bad peach. dax hill, coin see dense" no matter how many times its explained to you. 


12/09/2018 - 1:58pm Daxton Hill may have sparked…

Daxton Hill may have sparked the post, but you are missing the overall point to an insane degree. 

Nick Saban was an NFL failure who took over a poor Alabama team. He proceeded to go 7-6 his first year. That he year was able to recruit 24 4-star+ players. 

This is about how Alabama BECAME Alabama. And because they became Alabama, they are able to sell a guy like Daxton Hill on being an instant winner. But they main reason why they are able to do that is because they pay more than Michigan. Maybe they didn't need to do this to get Hill to flip, but its certainly the main reason they are where they are today under Saban. 

12/09/2018 - 1:52pm Of course Michigan CAN win. …

Of course Michigan CAN win. 

They were right there in 2016, until they were half-cheated/half-bumblefucked their way to a loss. 

Penn State lucked their way into a title in 2016.

Michigan State did the same in 2015. 

But its a lot easier to compete year after year if you have top level players. And Michigan will lag there because they don't pay on the same level that Alabama and Ohio State do. 

12/09/2018 - 1:50pm Then you're missing the…

Then you're missing the point. 

You want Michigan to win and be an elite program, but you don't care about how the elite programs became what they are today. 

Makes a bunch of sense. 


12/09/2018 - 1:46pm Nick Saban lost to Louisiana…

Nick Saban lost to Louisiana fucking Monroe. At home.

12/09/2018 - 1:13pm Why do you think they are so…

Why do you think they are so good? 

Its because they have really good players right?

How do you think they started acquiring those players before they were the current version of Alabama? You know, when they were 7-6 under Nick Saban with a loss to Louisiana-Monroe?

You know, when they were third in the fucking country according to the composite, including 3 5-star and 21 4-star players? 


12/09/2018 - 1:09pm Yeah, they seem to think…

Yeah, they seem to think that Saban worked his way up clean AND THEN the boosters and bag men were like "Hey little buddy, now that we know you're okay, need a little help here and there sealing the deal on some of these 5-star recruits"? 


12/09/2018 - 1:01pm How did Alabama get to the…

How did Alabama get to the point where they are playing for the national championship every year?

How did they acquire the players to start this run that they are on? 

12/09/2018 - 1:00pm ...How did Bama get the…

...How did Bama get the players to win the Big games? 


Are people in this thread serious? 

12/09/2018 - 12:35pm You know, I honestly wonder…

You know, I honestly wonder what would have happened if Zach Gentry had just caught the two passes that hit him in the hands. Immediately after what would have been first downs were the blocked punt and the interception.

I blame Harbaugh for not walking the ball from Shea Patterson's hands into Zach Gentry's hands. 

12/09/2018 - 12:32pm Cool, leave the conference…

Cool, leave the conference. I bet the Big-12 would love for Michigan to head their way. The ACC too. 

12/09/2018 - 12:30pm Are you honestly this dumb? …

Are you honestly this dumb? 

This isn't just about Dax Hill, who probably would be coming to Michigan if the results had been better in the Ohio State game. 

But what might have made the results batter...better recruits right? A 5-star CB instead of Brandon Watson right? A 5-star LB instead of Devin Gil right? 

What might have enticed a player like that to Michigan? 

I dunno, maybe funneling six-figures to those guys right? 

You get what this has to do with Dax Hill now? 

12/09/2018 - 12:27pm has ours since… has ours since Harbaugh has been here. 


Willie Henry

Ryan Glasgow

Jourdan Lewis

Ben Gedeon

Taco Charlton

Chris Wormley

Jabrill Peppers

Jeremy Clark

Delano Hill

Maurice Hurst

Soon to be drafted:

Rashan Gary

Devin Bush

Chase Winovich

If they go, its because they will be drafted:

Lavert Hill

David Long

Its honestly incredible that list doesn't have a Big Ten title. 

12/09/2018 - 12:19pm I'll say it again:


I'll say it again:

Michigan should compile a gigantic list of infractions such as the above and begin to pay their players and recruits openly and brazenly and if the NCAA says a word, send that list to the NCAA and tell them to fuck off. 

What the hell are they going to do? Penn State is back in business after a child rape scandal. Ohio State just won a Big Ten title after their coach was found condoning domestic violence for nearly a decade. Even if the NCAA wants to bring down a punishment, just ignore it who gives a shit. You think the Big Ten wants to lose Michigan's brand, Michigan's revenue, Michigan's fanbase? Not a chance. Time to start flexing on Emmert, Delaney and the rest of the corrupt sacks of shit that run college football. 


12/09/2018 - 6:35am 1. It is kind of fluky that…

1. It is kind of fluky that Indiana has lost as many times as they have in a row to Michigan.

2. This is going to shock you, but Michigan has usually been far closer to Ohio State talent-wise than Indiana has been to Michigan.

12/08/2018 - 10:43pm It's very fluky that a team…

It's very fluky that a team of Michigans caliber has won once since 2003 against Ohio State.

2005, 2006, 2007, 2012, 2013, 2016 and 2017 were all games that could have been won.

12/08/2018 - 9:47pm The record vs. OSU is pretty…

The record vs. OSU is pretty fluky. Really, there's 4-5 games in there Michigan could have and should have won.

But the overall point is correct.

12/08/2018 - 9:46pm Man. Prior to the OSU game…

Man. Prior to the OSU game it looked like the class might contain Hill, Harrison and Karlaftis.

Disaster performance.

12/05/2018 - 2:54pm Or get rid of Rutgers and…

Or get rid of Rutgers and Maryland and keep two good programs. 

Then, play 11 conference games and 1 non-conference game. 

If other conferences have a championship game weekend, just make sure the last week of conference games is that week. 

12/05/2018 - 2:52pm Hot Take: Leaders and…

Hot Take: Leaders and Legends were better actual divisions than East and West, despite the silly names. Replace Michigan State with Ohio State in the Legends division to avoid rematches and you have the best conference you could possibly have:

Michigan, Ohio State, Nebraska, Northwestern, Iowa, Minnesota

Penn State, Wisconsin, Michigan State, Purdue, Indiana, Illinois.

Fuck Rutgers and Maryland. 


12/05/2018 - 1:34pm Beating Northwestern does…

Beating Northwestern does nothing to improve your playoff chances. 

Beating 10-2 Michigan would have, despite the result of the first game. 

12/05/2018 - 1:33pm How this would have looked…

How this would have looked past four years:

2015: Iowa vs. Michigan State (same)

2016: Penn State vs. Ohio State (Wisconsin out)

2017: Wisconsin vs. Ohio State (same)

2018: Ohio State vs. Michigan (Northwestern out)

12/05/2018 - 1:31pm Just get rid of the…

Just get rid of the conference championship game, add a 10th conference game and move the final week to the conference championship game week. 

12/05/2018 - 12:29pm 1. It makes total sense that…

1. It makes total sense that the #1 defense would at least start with what brought them to that point.

2. They did adjust. The adjustments just didnt work. Read Space Coyotes post for more details.

3. No adjustment was going to make up for the fact that in that game OSUs offensive line played perfectly.

4. I brought up the 2016 game because you seem to think that if Urban Meyer was the favorite he would change his whole scheme to beat Michigan. This is obviously not true.

12/05/2018 - 11:18am Is any of this actually true…

Is any of this actually true? Did Urban do much differently in 2016 on offense than he had all year when he was favored? In that game Michigan's defense shut down Ohio State's offense to the tune of 10 pts in regulation. Ohio State didn't cross 200 yards till their final drive. They scored one offensive touchdown that required them to drive 6 yards. 

12/05/2018 - 11:04am It's really not. We're…

It's really not. We're talking about a play here and there that changes everyone's perceptions of these guys that don't have anything to do with their coaching ability. 

What adversity has Urban Meyer ever faced and dealt with? Having to hand the ball off more to Ezekiel Elliot behind a monster offensive line when his QB got hurt? 

We saw what happened when he didn't have an ideal situation: He quit. 

12/05/2018 - 10:48am We've never seen Urban Meyer…

We've never seen Urban Meyer in a situation where he didn't have loads of talent at his disposal at a P5 school. 

When he took over Florida, their previous three recruiting classes finished 10th, 1st and 5th in the country. In the SEC, they had the highest recruit ranking average over those three years. Meanwhile, after Tebow left and he was forced into a less than ideal QB situation with John Brantley, the team floundered and he bolted to Ohio State....

...Where the previous three classes finished 5th, 18th* and 6th. Over that period of time OSU had the highest recruit ranking average in the Big Ten. Everywhere he has went, he has been playing not only with the upper hand, but the absolute best hand. 

The other part of this is luck. Look at 2006 Florida for instance: They won close games against Tennessee (21-20), Georgia, South Carolina (missed a field goal to win), Vanderbilt (Michigan beat them 27-7 that year) and Florida State, none of which were very good. They needed Arkansas to fumble a punt into the endzone to regain control of that game. The reason why it didn't make sense that Florida jumped Michigan that year was specifically because much of their season relied on them getting lucky against bad teams (sound familiar)? 

Imagine for a second if Harbaugh got lucky twice in 2016: Iowa misses a field goal and Mason Cole blocks a guy's chest with his hand instead of inexplicably blocking him in the face mask. Michigan wins that game, ends all the bad Ohio State streaks and likely wins the Big Ten and earns a playoff birth. Michigan is back and everyone is happy. And it wouldn't be anything that Harbaugh did differently as a coach, just a couple things outside of his control went his way. 

Imagine for a second if Urban Meyer got unlucky in 2006: South Carolina makes their field goal, knocking them out of the title picture and Reggie Fish doesn't try to field a punt running backwards in the SEC title game. The next year they go 9-4. Suddenly, is Meyer in any better position after three years than Harbaugh was at Michigan after three years? 9-3, 11-3, 9-4? Not really. 

Dude is a good coach, but he's been extremely fortunate. 

*The 18th is misleading. OSU took 11 4-star players in a class of 19 according to 247. Michigan was ranked above them at 17th, but only took 7 4-star players. Their team ranking is held down by a last second 2-star commit and two unranked commits. 

12/04/2018 - 1:04pm Good content.

But gotta be…

Good content.

But gotta be honest, I'm pretty excited to see how half-assed the Florida preview is going to be. Sad we have to wait 3.5 weeks!

12/04/2018 - 1:00pm I think this is the wrong…

I think this is the wrong argument. 

This is really about Barrett vs. Haskins. 

Brown had Barrett figured out.

In 2016, Ohio State scored 10 points in regulation at home. You might say "They missed two field goals!", which okay. But their one TD came when they had to drive 6 yards. Really, Ohio State's offense played well enough to score 9 points on their own in regulation. They didn't even cross 200 yards till the last drive in regulation (that featured a terrible call by the officials on a third down given that they would let the same call go when it would have helped Michigan in overtime). That is a beat down and its a travesty that Michigan lost that game because of offensive mistakes and the officiating. 

In 2017, Ohio State had 14 points through 2.5 quarters with Barrett in the game. Seven of those points came on a drive that was aided by phantom penalties (perplexing even the announcers) and a shocking dropped INT by Josh Metellus. 

What's honestly frustrating - especially given what happened this year - is that Ohio State was probably HELPED in 2017 by losing their starting QB. Ever since Haskins entered that game, Michigan has been unable to stop Ohio State. 

12/04/2018 - 12:36pm Yeah, Don Brown was coaching…

Yeah, Don Brown was coaching up John O'Korn. That's not really on him. But having O'Korn out there can affect a game that the defense is playing in.