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Date Title Body
07/13/2018 - 1:30pm Agreed with all those. Add…

Agreed with all those. Add those, ability to edit and vote on OPs and I think the bugs are pretty much all fixed

07/13/2018 - 11:47am Also needed: Ability to…

Also needed: Ability to upvote/downvote OPs

07/13/2018 - 11:28am Florida suspended their star…

Florida suspended their star receiver for the entire season last year due to the credit card stuff knowing he was leaving for the draft at season's end.

07/02/2018 - 1:53pm Unfortunately I cannot…

Unfortunately I cannot access the create content buttons but for someone who can Bill Connelly posted his Michigan preview which would be a good topic for the board.

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2018/7/2/17498642/michigan-football-2018-preview-schedule-roster

06/18/2018 - 7:20pm MVPs aren't awards. Awards…

MVPs aren't awards. Awards are a separate thing that you get from other r/CFB related things. An MVP won't push you up rankings wise.

06/13/2018 - 11:54am New. Everyone likes the old…

New. Everyone likes the old because they're used to it, but it was an incredible eye sore and whenever non-users saw the site they complained about its outdated look. There were also so many issues with it (non functioning search engine, inability to view old board posts easily, the view hot board posts tab never working, non collapse-able comment section, the site constantly crashing or working slowly, terrible mobile interface, etc.)

There are definitely still problems with the new site (no app, login issues, etc.) but the login stuff seems to be working (for me now at least) and more changes/fixes are coming. It's hard to judge completely until we see all the fixes and see what problems persist, but I feel like most complaints are just about change. Just like everyone always complains about change (see every Facebook design update where people complain about how bad it is until the next one where people complain about how bad the new update is because the previous update was perfect). Give it a few weeks/months for kinks to be worked out and I think this site is a lot better than the previous one.

06/13/2018 - 11:27am Yeah from what you've said…

Yeah from what you've said/his ranking jumps on other sites, it seems like McDaniels is a one and done guy. If that's the case I feel like his recruitment mainly comes down whether he wants to follow the typical one and done route (go to Duke/Kentucky/Kansas and try to win on a super) or whether he wants to go to a place he feels more comfortable with the coaches and can be the man (like Simmons, Fultz, Sexton etc.). Obviously biased here but Michigan gives him a great spot to be a one and done, win, be comfortable with the coaches and even develop.

06/13/2018 - 11:13am I don't get how people can…

I don't get how people can be mad at adding him as a walk-on. We now have a guy as our 4th string QB who has starting experience at another B1G school and he doesn't take up a scholarship. It seems like a great situation to me. He also is going to be here two years so he has some time to learn the system and maybe even develop a little.

Lets be clear though. If Jr. ever plays meaningful snaps at Michigan something probably went horribly wrong. There should be 0 expectations for him. But as we learned this past year, you need bodies. If some 2017 level shit happens again and we lose 2/3 QBs again, well shit's probably hitting the fan again, but at least we have an option. Not a great option but if we get to the point where Jr. is a viable starting option, it probably means the other options are true freshman Joe Milton or another walk-on. If those are our options, it means we're probably fucked, but at least we have 3 bad options instead of 2. And maybe one surprises us and something sticks. Probably not, but at least now we have Jr. instead of Milton in a break in case of emergency situation.

06/13/2018 - 11:04am Is there a tentative…

Is there a tentative timeline for McDaniels?

06/12/2018 - 3:05pm I can't login unless on my…

I can't login unless on my phone, the site also tells me I don't have a valid e-mail address when I try to reset that.

06/03/2018 - 7:39pm Why

Why? How does a basketball coach going to coach in the NBA not make sense? How does a team hire a local coach with a proven track record, success, and a style similar to the league wide trend not make sense? Yes there are reasons it doesn't make sense (Beilein's age, lack of NBA experience, Pistons being terrible, etc.), but clearly it makes sense enough that an interview has occured. Both Beilein and the Pistons feel like it makes sense...

06/03/2018 - 7:24pm I

I fail to see what the mental gymanstics are but I fail at a lot of things so that's no shock. I'm not saying it's going to happen or that there aren't a lot of very valid reasons why it shouldn't. I don't think it will. But to say there's no chance is just wrong.

06/03/2018 - 7:02pm Right

And what is needed to succeed at lower major schools like Nevada is different than at Michigan. Succeeding at one does not equal succes in the other. It's why many succesful mid major coaches don't succeed at higher levels, and Mussleman is the epitomy of success at mid majors that doesn't equate to high major success.

Also the only players Beilein hasn't had room for were all 5th year guys who finizhed out their scholarship/eligibility at Michigan and they all had plenty of time to land at other high major schools. There was no snaking of scholarships, all scholarships were fully honored. You gloss over the 11th hour stuff, but that's why it's so shitty. That's the issue.

06/03/2018 - 6:47pm It

It also does make sense. For Beilein: be a head coach at the highest level, which is the pinnacle of success in his profession. For the Pistons: Get a perimeter oriented head coach (the trend for success in recent years) with local ties to raise team support. He's had an interview with the Pistons and a reputable reporter is saying it's more than leverage. Acting like there's no chance at this point is willful ignorance.

06/03/2018 - 6:38pm Mussleman

Mussleman would be very low on my list. His succes, while impressive, is all reliant on transfers. His entire roster is litered with high major and grad transfers. That can work in the MWC, but it's much harder to do so consistently at a high level.

Relatedly he seems like a lock at this point to stay through the year at Nevada and ditch afterwards. His Nevada team is supposed to be a title contender so no reason for him to leave that this year. It's also littered with guys who will go pro/graduate after this year. His roster construction has been that of a guy who wants to one real shot to win it all and then bolt for greener pastures. Nevada will crater next year. I don't want that near Michigan. It'd be risking multiple 2014-2015 like years but significantly worse. Especially if he gets the opportunity to bolt again for greener pastures again, like the NBA.

Finally he also seems kinda sleezy. With the Martin twins returning he is oversigned by two guys. One grad transfer has already had to decommit and one more decommit is on the way, probably from an incoming freshman. Very Cal/Crean like move and once again, shitty roster construction when you force younger guys out. All in all not a fan.

06/03/2018 - 6:30pm This

This seems like a stick your head in the sand response

06/03/2018 - 3:45pm Why

Why? He was just plain bad last year

06/03/2018 - 3:44pm Patterson

Patterson, Evans, Higdon, Onwenu, Black or DPJ would all be pretty notable as well.

05/31/2018 - 10:17pm I mean

I mean he's not the devil but he's had multiple assault cases.

http://amp.si.com/nba/2017/07/24/draymond-green-lawsuit-legal-analysis-…

He's also had a few SnapChat mishaps (posting his dick on his story, sending a snap of him driving over 100 MPH as he was driving, etc.).

05/30/2018 - 6:13pm We had

We had a DJ Wilson. Now time for a JD Wilson. Both named Jalen too.

05/30/2018 - 5:50pm Could

Could be true but I find that hard to believe. Between G League, Europe, Israel, etc. Ward could have easily found a spot. He's a very good offensive player and rebounder.

He doesn't scare me as a player and as a team we matchup well with him. That being said his backup is another version of him in Xavier Tillman. I'd rather he be gone and them not have the depth.

05/30/2018 - 5:18pm Brian

Brian Bowen moved from TBD to leaving. Although very likely he wouldn't have been eligible if he stayed next year, this is important since we may play South Carolina twice.

You may also know him as a former MSU heavy lean as a high schooler who spelled the end for Pitino at Lousiville once his committment there was investigated.

05/30/2018 - 4:22pm I

I think they'll still be good. Not title contending good, but top 15-20 team.

Booth and Paschall are both good players. They bring in potentially the most sought after grad transfer so far in G Joe Cremo (18 PPG, 4 RPG and 4 APG on 46% from 3) and are now in on the other most sought after grad transfer in Stanford big Reid Travis (19.5 PPG, 8.5 RPG although everyone thinks Kentucky is the spot). They also have a 5 star PG coming in.

Definitely a winable game, but at the new Pavilion early in the season I'd still take Nova.

05/30/2018 - 3:45pm Midnight

Midnight tonight

05/29/2018 - 6:48pm I

I think he can be pretty effective for MSU. He's always been very efficient but hasn't put up eye opening numbers, partially due to conditioning and partially due to him not being the focal point of the offense. If Izzo smartens up and realizes Kenny Goins was a walk-on for a reason, he can put up good numbers as a #1 option.

That being said I think he still has 2 major limitations. One is his conditioning as I said, unless something major changes he won't be more than a 25 MPG guy. Second is he still is a bad matchup against any team with a stretch/mobile 5. You don't even need to be a huge 3 point threat, just able to screen effectively away from the basket and hit a few jumpers away from the rim.

05/28/2018 - 3:35pm Not

Not a Cavs fan by any means. But to think that a city that had gone 50 years without any title will regret winning a title is insane.

Also what was Kyrie building lol? A team that was in the lottery and had the #1 pick 2 straight years? That roster won 33 games before LeBron came, and had about 2/3 pieces that were contributing on the roster the next year.

Stop having opinions. You're bad at it.

05/28/2018 - 2:55pm Yeah apparently

Yeah apparently those are the rumors over there. I'd be surprised if it happened. I understand a guy leaving early, even if he's going to go undrafted, if there's no chance he improves his stock. But Matthews could be a 1st rounder next year.

It'd be very disappointing if he goes but if that's what he wants to do, good luck and go get paid. Hopefully he has impressed a team in a workout and has some sort of guarantee for this year in the draft.

05/27/2018 - 10:37pm It's

It's no longer 2012 dude, blindly hating LeBron isn't cool anymore.

The idea that LeBron has final say on every move yet the Kyrie move "went" through him is contradictory. Kyrie left because of him, sure. Kyrie is also a noted head case and wanted to leave because he had won a ring and wanted to prove himself on a team that didn't have arguably the greatest of all time. Trying to critize LeBron for winning a title and being the GOAT is as ridiculous as Kyrie saying the Earth is flat.

And those moves were masterful. Turning a dysfunctional roster with IT, Rose and Crowder into all those guys was a great job. The guys they got forgetting how to hit layups is not LeBron or the FOs fault.

05/27/2018 - 9:43pm The

The Kyrie move obviously did not go through him, and the resulting IT/Crowder mess. Getting Hill/Nance/Clarkson/Hood out of that was a masterful job by the Cavs FO. The fact that these generally talented and established players can't hit a shot on the road is not on him.

05/26/2018 - 4:55pm They

They beat us last year at the Big House and return most of that team?

05/25/2018 - 1:44pm Karma

Karma for this only matters if it's from r/CFB

05/24/2018 - 1:01pm Eh

Not really. Clemson can hit 5 territories of ours. 3 of those we'll be defending fairly heavily since OSU/VT can already hit them. They only have 1/5 the user base of us and 4 of their 6 territories we can hit. If they try to attack us, they'll probably take 2/3 territories at best. They are then kicked out of the alliance and us/GT end them within a few turns. Them attacking us spells death for them.

05/23/2018 - 4:48pm If

If Joe Milton is the reason you're optimistic for next season just lol

05/17/2018 - 7:38pm Notre

Notre Dame will be a good team next year. They'll have a really good to great defense and a good OL with an exerienced QB. They'll be a tough team to beat on the road to open the season and I agree they should be favored.

That being said we have to win this game. It's year 4, we'll have a great D, an experienced QB, talented WR corps and productive run game. ND is good and it'll be a tough game, but sometimes you actually need to beat a good team, even on the road.

05/17/2018 - 12:42pm Carton

Carton (PG) and Wilson (Wing/SF) we're both the presumed favorites for currently. Probably the two most likely to join the class as of today. 

Girard (SG) has been a top target for the staff for a while. He went to the same high school Jimmer did, broke the NY State scoring record this year as a junior, and his dad played for Beilein back at Le Moyne. His recruitment is very open, he's recently gotten offers from Duke and Syracuse so there's a ways to go there.

Watts (SG) and Weems (Wing/PF) are both in staters who are seem likely to go out of state or to MSU.

McDaniels (Wing/PF) has only recently been in contact with the staff. MattD posted here about him 10 days ago saying he would potentially be his #1 prospect in 2019. McDaniels jumped 79 spots today to #10 in 247's rankings. He's from Washington (the state) and hasn't been offered yet, but contact has recently increased between him and Michigan and he's Howard's cousin. He's a tough get from the Pacific Northwest but he's one to keep an eye on.

Brooks (Wing/SF) is a long shot who we probably don't have much of a shot at.

05/17/2018 - 12:33pm Just

Just to clarify, this is just 247's rankings. On the composite, Carton is #27 and a 4 star, Wilson is #34 and a 4 star.

If you subsrcibe to UMHoops, Dylan put out an article as a 2019 recruiting roundup. Key targets from that list:

DJ Carton - 23 (247), 27 (Composite), 5 star to 247 and 4 star Composite

Jalen Wilson - 29, 34, 4 star to both

Joe Girard III - 157, 156, 3 star to both

Rocket Watts - 47, 51, 4 star to both

Romeo Weems - 51, 37, 4 star to both

Jaden McDaniels - 10, 28, 5 star to 247 and 4 star Composite (no offer yet but Juwan Howard's cousin)

Keion Brooks - 9, 23, 5 star to both

05/15/2018 - 10:13am I'm

I'm excited by this matchup obviously. It'll be interesting to see how good Nova is next year. They lose Bridges/Brunson for sure, return Booth and Paschall, and Spellman/DiVincenzo are on the fence. There was a rumor last week Spellman hired an agent but that hasn't be confirmed by anyone trustworthy.

If DiVincenzo/Spellman return, this team is another title favorite. Not the unbeatable powerhouse they were this past year, but a probable 1 seed again.

If they lose both I think our matchup against them becomes very interesting. They'd only return Booth/Paschal of last year's major contributors (the 5th and 6th best guys of that core 6) and they'd add 5 star PG Jahvon Quinerly to headline a class of 3 top 50 players. That's still a good team but not a title contender and one that's very beatable. Eary in the season at the new Pavillion I'd still take Nova, but it'd be an even matchup.

Two other things I'll say: The first is about Quinerly. He's a 5 star PG (#27 composite) from NJ who committed to Nova after he decommitted from Zona after the wiretap stuff came out. The assumption is he's eligible for next season, I'd be shocked if he wasn't, but it's worth following.

The second things is the aforementioned NBA decisions. Both DiVincenzo/Spellman are 50/50 shots to go (both are late firsts in a good amount of mocks) but despite the title game performance I think losing Spellman would be the bigger blow to Nova as a team. The biggest difference between last season Nova and 2 years ago Nova was Spellman. 2 years ago Paschall was the only useful big they had (they had another 6-9 guy who had an 11% useage rate, pretty invisible when he played). With Spellman not only did they have another real big, they had a real stretch 5 who could protect the rim and allowed them to perfect Wright's positionless basketball. If they lose Spellman they're only bigs will be Paschall, SO Dhamir Cosby-Roundtree (was basically a filler as a freshmam with no shooting ability) and incoming freshman Cole Swider (6-7, 40th ranked composite player). That's a better situation than 2 years ago but no Spellman means Paschall's back at the 5 playing heavy minutes with not a ton of support and the positionless basketball is really hurt. Still a really good team, especially if DiVincenzo's back, but not the jugernaut they were this past year.

05/14/2018 - 10:46am That's

That's part of what he says but at one point in the OP he says:

"don't provide the financial aid necessary for in-state students from middle, working and lower class backgrounds to attend"

05/11/2018 - 3:40pm It

It was Billy Price I'm pretty sure, not Bosa.

05/02/2018 - 3:28pm Nolan

Nolan Ryan. He was a compiler.

05/01/2018 - 3:03pm Depended

Depended on the vibe. Charley's is definitely the best one though overall, no question. Biggest regret was them changing management/servers half way through my senior year, I'll go to the grave saying otherwise I would have gotten a VIP card.

Ricks was definitely better than Skeeps, too much underage Greek Life at Skeeps. For Main St. area Mash was decent. otherwise I liked Heideleberg.

05/01/2018 - 9:06am Harbaugh's

Harbaugh's first year, my senior year. In the student section for OSU, to my right is a Michigan girl on crutches, behind us are 3 OSU fans (what looks like a dad and 2 college/high school aged sons). Both the kids are trashed and whenever they are walking in and out of their seats they push the people in the row in front of them (my row) to get them to fall off the benches. They do it all through the first half, people get pissed but then around half time they do it to the girl on crutches. Once that happens the entire crowd is blowing up at the dad and kids before secuirty steps in to make sure they survive the day. The kids and dad disappear for a quarter and come back at the start of the 4th, a little more sober and a lot more quiet.

04/26/2018 - 2:47pm He

He's won 14 straight Big 12 titles (been at Kansas 15 years total). He's made 3 Final Fours, won a national title, 10 Elite Eights (8 at Kansas) and as a head coach hasn't missed the tournament in 20 years. 

Comparatively in the 15 years before him at KU, Williams had 4 Final Fours but no titles, 5 Elite Eights and 9 conference titles.

Yes he has a history of being upset in the tournament. But that's wildly overblown considering his teams are always high seeds so they're always at risk of being upset. In 15 years he has 8 Elite Eights so he doesn't struggle to advance on a regular basis. He only has the one title but winning the tournament has a major luck factor.

Self is one of the best coaches of our generation. To pretend like he's not even good is ridiculous.

04/25/2018 - 5:54pm I agree

I agree generally with what you're saying. Our schedule is not as easy as people think and judging it based on last years schedule is a mistake. Teams like OSU and Purdue will be worse while a team like Maryland should be a lot better.

That being said I still think Torvik's projections are pretty bad. Wisconsin went 15-18 last year and 7-11 in conference yet is somehow projected to be a top 20 team next year? They had some injuries with D'Mitrik Trice and Kobe King but that team was bad last year. It was Ethan Happ and a team full of chuckers who couldn't create their own shot. Of guys who played 15%+ of available minutes last year the only ones with ORTGs above 107 were Brevin Prtizl and Aleem Ford, and they had USGs of 15.4 and 12.7 respectively which were Isaiah Livers/Eli Brooks level. Happ had a 35.6% usage rate and a 105.1 ORTG (which doesn't do him justice as a player since his defense is so good). The only layers on Wisconsin's team with above average ORTGs had Brooks/Livers level USGs. Sure they get Trice and King back, but King has played 10 games and Trice to this point is another inefficient chucker. They also have the 12th best recruiting class in the B1G. Do I think they're a tourney team next year? Probably. A top 20 team? Not a chance.

Then there's Iowa. Iowa was 14-19 and 4-14 in conference. They return most of their roster and have a 4 star, top 60 SG coming in. But they were putrid on defense and have a mediocre at best coach in McCafferey. That's a solid foundation and that team will improve, but to call them a preseason top 30 team defies logic.

Same with Indiana. Solid recruiting class coming in but only one top 100 guy. They only return 6 guys and only one who played more than 60% of minutes last year (granted DeRon Davis was injured). Now they're a top 30 team instead of a .500 level one? More plausible than Iowa, but still questionable.

Northwestern the same. Mediocre team last year, below .500, losing 3 starters and 2 of their best 4 players from last year. Bring in a good grad transfer and a decent recruiting class with one top 100 player, yet all of a sudden they're top 35?

I also get a team like Purdue will drop losing 4/5 starters. But they bring back probably the best player in the conference in Carsen Edwards and bring in a good transfer player like NW. But they drop to 39.

I agree our schedule isn't as easy as people think. I personally like the tougher schedule, helps the team but also means better games and a better home schedule which is nice as a fan. I like the schedule for that reason. But I also think Torvik's predictions fail to pass the common sense test right now. Which is probably due in large part to inability to model incoming freshman and the impact of good coaching properly. The model will also probably hit on one or two the teams I listed above. But to say going into next year that Wisconsin, Indiana, Iowa, and NW are all better than Purdue or a team like Nebraska seems bad to me.

04/25/2018 - 4:50pm Agreed

If you think QB A is >>>>> than the rest, take A 1st. If A=B=C, go BPA 1 and then QB 4.

Barkley's a great prospect but I don't know I'd take him. You can find good RBs much later in the draft. I'd go BPA and QB and improve the team as much as possible. If Barkley is BPA than go him, but if it's close I'd take a guy like Chubb first.

04/25/2018 - 2:56pm Part

Part of the reason for the Torvik disconnect:

His 2019 projections currently have Michigan State as #6, Wisconsin as #18 and Maryland at #19 (Michigan is at #20). That means in his model's eyes we play Home and Home's with the top 3 teams, all ranked above us, so that's 30% of our schedule right there.

His model also currently has Iowa (road only) at #29, Indiana (Home and Home) at #31, and Northwestern (Home and Home) at #35. Meanwhile Nebraska, OSU and Purdue (all single home plays) are #34, #37 and #39 respectively.

So currently in his model's eyes we only have single games against two of worst teams (Rutgers, Illinois) but have 6 games against the top 3 teams (which are all better than us) as well as another 5 against teams in the top 35, 3 of which are on the road. For the #20 ranked team, that's a tough schedule. Then our home single plays are against 7th, 9th and 10th ranked B1G teams to his model so we don't get a favorable schedule there.

That being said I think his projections right now are way off. I don't see Wisconsin as a top 20 team even though they will be better. Iowa, Indiana and Northwestern seem laughably high while Nebraska and Purdue, although moreso Nebraska, seem incredibly low.

The disconnect seems to mainly be his model disagreein with human consensus on which B1G teams are good and which are bad.

04/25/2018 - 12:25pm Yeah

Yeah that was a typo on my end. First sentence should read I am saying, not I'm not saying. Tripped myself up there. To clarify, I do think he is a very good coach.

Yes, that team had 3 seniors starting (counting 4th year KBD) on it. But being a senior laden team doesn't magically make you better. Tate was about the same player this year he was last year on a very bad OSU team. Williams was about the same player he was on the 2015-2016 OSU team that also missed the tournament. KBD was the only guy who was significantly different as a senior, and once again Holtmann should get credit for that. Saying they had 3 seniors so Holtmann's job isn't impressive, while the same seniors were the core of mediocre to bad teams without Holtmann, seems like lazy analysis and a cop out.

Your analysis of the Dakich situation is also dismissive. We know first hand what a liability the guy is. You even said, all he could do is go out there and pass the ball to other players who could make plays. They were essentially playing 4 on 5 offensively for half the game! How is it not insanely impressive to almost win the B1G doing that? "Dakich didn't even average a full 20 minutes a game" You're acting like barely averaging under 20 MPG isn't a ton in college basketball. He averaged more minutes than Jordan Poole did for Michigan. We saw how much Michigan struggled when Dakich was on the court for 5 minutes a game, now imagine doing that for half the game. It makes no sense.

Saying you want to see more of him is fine. I just think after 4 good to very good years of coaching at power conferences, it's pretty clear what Holtmann is. I don't see how 4 years isn't enough for a coach but when you have a team "full of seniors" (4th year guys) that means the players are automatically great and we know exactly who those players are.

04/25/2018 - 11:51am First

Agreed entirely with what MH20 said. What he did was the "average" for Butler, but that was when Butler was in the Horizon. Doing that same "average" but in a Power conference is a completely different story. 

I'm also confused as to how you're ignoring the Miller year, which was the previous year in the Big East, when framing Holtmann's achievements yet are arguing that what Todd Lickliter did in the early/mid 2000s matters. If it's as easy to continue success as you're saying, why did Miller immediately flop while Holtmann immediately succeeded? That has to do with the quality coach you are. Holtmann has coached 4 years at a power conference, and had success in all 4 years while generally coaching at a talent defeciency. How long is enough evidence?

And once again, as MH20 said, I'm not saying Holtmann is a very good coach. This past season was an incredible job by him. I'm not saying he's the best coach in the conference or Michigan needs to run and hide or something like that, just that he's a very good coach. Similarly I'm not trying to convince you or sell you on his ability. You're saying you need more evidence, which is fine, and I'm saying we only have 4 years to judge his coaching ability on. And in those 4 years he's been a very good coach. So I see him as a very good coach.

04/25/2018 - 10:51am You're wildly

You're wildly underselling what Holtmann did at Butler. Sure Stevens put them on the map, but you're acting like maintaining a program like Holtmann did is easy. Most of the time when a program like Butler has their head coach leave, the program collapses.

Look at VCU - Shaka Smart puts them on the map and leaves for Texas. Will Wade maintains that for two years, goes to LSU and looks to be in position to turn that program around. Then this past year, in their third year after Smart, they go 18-15, 9-9 in conference and miss the tournament.

Look at George Mason - Jim Larranaga is there for over a decade. He puts that program on the map, brings them to the Final Four, stays another 5 years and leaves after a year where they go to the second round of the NCAA Tournament. 7 years later and George Mason has yet to go back to the tournament.

When you go to a school like Butler maintaining what previous, short-term success is incredibly hard to do. Stevens was only there 6 years. That's not enough time to turn a school like Butler into a perennial tournament team. To continue that success you need another very good coach, or else you'll fall back to irrelevance.

This is all also ignoring the fact that Butler jumped to the Big East right after Stevens left. So not only did Holtmann maintain this success, he did it in a power conference. Also the year after Stevens, Butler's first in the Big East left Butler had a different coach who went 14-17, 4-14 in conference and obviously missed the tournament. Enter Holtmann and in his first year Butler is in the top 25 and the tournament.

And on top of all this you're downplaying his success this past year at OSU. He took a team coming off 2 straight years missing the tournament, with Andrew Dakich playing 47% of minutes, to the tournament as a 5 seed and was 2 games away from winning the B1G. We struggled when Dakich was playing 6% of available minutes. Holtmann succeeded with Dakich playing almost half the game every time out.

Yes he had two good seniors in Tate and Bates-Diop. Like I said, his success was slightly over stated this past year because Bates-Diop missed last year which made Matta's team look worse and decreased expectations for the team this year. That being said, Bates-Diop was not the same player under Matta that he was under Holtmann. He went from a 12 PPG player to almost 20 while improving his 3P%, rebounding and defense. Part of that is him being healthy/older than before, part of that goes to Holtmann.

And once again, OSU was a shit show last year. He had 10 rotation players of which 3 were freshman and one was Dakich. 3 of the 4 best players from an already bad 2016-2017 team left when Holtmann got to OSU, the entire recruiting class from 2015 for OSU (which was top 5/10 nationally) was gone, and he had a short offseason at OSU since he was hired in June.

Is Holtmann guaranteed to succeed? No, he might very well underwhelm at OSU. But I wouldn't bet on it. He's proven already he is a very good coach.

04/25/2018 - 7:56am Agreed

Holtmann is a very good coach. Turning last year's OSU team into a 5 seed and B1G title contender was incredible.

That being said he doesn't have a guy like Bates-Diop who missed the entire previous year to injury coming back. I don't see another B1G POY on that roster. I think they should definitely find their way into the tourney, but even in a weak B1G I don't see them as title contenders.