OT: opinions on Infinite Jest?
I could use a distraction from recruiting, and I figured this is an appropriate OT post since Brian has written at length about DFW and his influence on the blog.
I started reading a free Kindle sample of Infinite Jest and am enjoying it, but I need to make a call on whether I want to commit to a 1000+ page endeavor. DFW's writing style is great -- challenging, funny, interesting -- but my concern is whether there is a plot to the story that is going to keep me hooked. Is there much of a plot to the book? While I can admire and enjoy great prose, I usually enjoy novels much more when I empathsize with the characters and sort of cheer for or against them relating to whatever obstacles exists before them. Know what I mean? (P.S. No spoilers please.)
Anyway, any thoughts on the novel would be appreciated. Now you may resume panicking about Rashan Gary.
February 2nd, 2016 at 1:45 PM ^
is the I-am-very-smart book. It's replaced Ulysses.
February 2nd, 2016 at 1:57 PM ^
This is such a cynical viewpoint and unsurprisingly almost always made by people who haven't read the book.
February 2nd, 2016 at 2:16 PM ^
And if anyone knows cynical, it's the guy with the username of "somewittyname."
February 2nd, 2016 at 2:20 PM ^
I'm not sure you really grasp what cynical means.
February 2nd, 2016 at 2:23 PM ^
I would posit that it is you who does not understand.
February 2nd, 2016 at 2:41 PM ^
Rather than just saying things baselessly, I'll actually show you how you are incorrect.
Definition: Believing or showing the belief that people are motivated chiefly by base or selfish concerns; skeptical of the motives of others.
Cynics chose to denigrate things because of their inherent skepticism in values they chose to reject and general mistrust of people and society. So when a book like Infinite Jest is lauded, a typical cynical reaction is to dismiss the book entirely based off some ridiculous notion that only people who want to appear smart would read and discuss it. A cynic finds it very difficult to believe that there may be genuine satisfcation gained by reading and discussing the book and that the book may have a value they do not appreciate.
My handle has literally nothing to do with cynicism. Cynicism is inherently negative. A lot of people use the word cynical interchangably with words like irreverent, satirical, skeptical, etc. None of those share the same meaning.
February 2nd, 2016 at 2:52 PM ^
Yeah, he's still right.
February 2nd, 2016 at 3:23 PM ^
And of course you don't state how/why. I understand that it is a word very often misused, but whatever you might think of my handle, you cannot make a case for it being cynical by any commonly accepted definition of the word. Whereas, disimissing the value of a book on the basis of skepticism of the motives of others, is quite literally cynicism.
February 2nd, 2016 at 4:00 PM ^
As someone who is also a big fan of DFW, you are embodying the sterotype his readers get.
February 2nd, 2016 at 4:33 PM ^
I certainly have no problem with that opinion, but I'm going to stand up for the integrity of my statements with careful arguments, as opposed to most of the responses in this string here, including yours, that are just unqualified statements or opinions.
As an aside, DFW has also had quite a few discussions (recorded and written) on the role and dangers of cynicism in society. I find cynicism to be an interesting and important subject and not just some word.
February 2nd, 2016 at 2:55 PM ^
I can't let people be wrong on the internet, even though this is a stupid argument.
Per Miriam-Webster:
Full Definition of cynical
: having or showing the attitude or temper of a cynic: asa : contemptuously distrustful of human nature and motives <those cynical men who say that democracy cannot be honest and efficient — F. D. Roosevelt>b : based on or reflecting a belief that human conduct is motivated primarily by self-interest <a cynical ploy to win votes>
So let's visit item B. Would one not suggest that a motivation of self-interest is to present yourself as clever on a pseudo-intellectual message board? So by illustrating that in your username, you are being CYNICAL.
The joke I made in my first post was actually pointing out that your username uses cynicism in the EXACT same way as you claim to dislike.
Exhibit A - You claim that branding a book as an I-AM-VERY-SMART book is cynical.
Exhibit B - Your username indicates that other people use their username to LOOK AT HOW CLEVER I AM at other people.
LOOK HOW SMART I AM BOOK vs. LOOK HOW CLEVER I AM username. It is essentially the exact same thing. So if I am using it wrong, I guess you are too.
February 2nd, 2016 at 3:03 PM ^
Completely false comparisons. I said that denigrating a book on the basis that it's a book people only read because they are trying to prove their intelligence is cynical. It is rejecting the value in something based on skepticism and distrust of peoples movtives. That is the exact essence of cynicism.
My username came about because I couldn't think of a username. It is not meant to poke fun of anyone, denigrate anything, or demonstrate anything. Even if it were me trying to say "look how clever I am," that is still not cynicism. There is no contempt, there is no distrust, no skepticism, no rejection of value.
Anyway, I have said my piece. I don't expect you to accept it, but no rational argument has been made to counter it.
February 2nd, 2016 at 3:13 PM ^
Well, to be fair, I couldn't think of a very good username either... Common ground, then? Cheers.
February 2nd, 2016 at 3:16 PM ^
so that I could say how much I enjoyed this sub-thread. 1484, nicely done. You made me L-O-L.
Anyway, I hated Infinite Jest. And yes, I gave it a fair shot, about 100 pages worth.
February 2nd, 2016 at 1:48 PM ^
We bringing Reddit to MGoBlog?
February 2nd, 2016 at 1:59 PM ^
I can't stand the formatting of that site.
February 2nd, 2016 at 3:44 PM ^
this seems more like a Youtube chain comment to me.
February 2nd, 2016 at 3:58 PM ^
This exact topic was on the front page of Reddit yesterday. Maybe it still is, I haven't checked today.
February 2nd, 2016 at 1:48 PM ^
way, way too long.
February 2nd, 2016 at 1:48 PM ^
Only made it about 50 pages before giving up. I apparently lack the patience and/or intelligence to make it through that dense prose. Hats off to anyone who can.
February 2nd, 2016 at 1:48 PM ^
Another DFW title, Broom of the System, is much shorter and involves Ohio being turned into a vast desert of black sand. Maybe you could read that one first to decide whether you dig DFW?
February 2nd, 2016 at 1:50 PM ^
seems like good advice, thanks
February 2nd, 2016 at 2:38 PM ^
Reading the book or turning Ohio into a desert of black sand?
(Hint - this may be a trick question.)
February 2nd, 2016 at 1:54 PM ^
FWIW, Broom of the System was a lot tougher for me than IJ. As always, I suggest starting with DFW's nonfiction, which is universally outstanding and (with the exception of a couple of literary navel-gazers) should give you an indication of whether this guy is for you or not.
February 2nd, 2016 at 2:00 PM ^
Yes. Consider the lobster is a great collection.
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
February 2nd, 2016 at 2:06 PM ^
This is where I should have started.
February 2nd, 2016 at 2:49 PM ^
Definitely true, though you might need to be a world-class grammar Nazi to fully enjoy that SNOOTs chapter.
February 2nd, 2016 at 4:01 PM ^
check
February 2nd, 2016 at 5:33 PM ^
This is an interesting topic to me because I also have been thinking about downloading Ifiniite Jest. It's just a matter of time I guess and I will pull the trigger. I typically have 2 books going at once- but may have to go solo when I start IJ.
February 2nd, 2016 at 7:41 PM ^
To me, that almost defeats the purpose; half of the fun of it (and the reason for it) is having this big huge book and flipping appropriately to the footnotes in the back...I think that having that experience with the book is an important part of reading it and downloading it takes that away.
February 2nd, 2016 at 2:08 PM ^
Definitely agree, broom of the system was almost impossible for me. And warming up with a supposedly fun thing, consider the lobster, and brief interview with hideous men will go a long way toward warming readers up for the task of IJ
February 2nd, 2016 at 2:10 PM ^
double post
February 2nd, 2016 at 2:09 PM ^
Thanks Brian. I like DFW's nonfiction a lot, and it sounds like I shouldn't be concerned about a lack of plot... so I'm going to jump in!
February 2nd, 2016 at 2:11 PM ^
Okay, okay. I admit that I really just wanted to bring up the part about Ohio being turned into a desert.
February 2nd, 2016 at 2:42 PM ^
Any thoughts on his commencement speech, 'This is Water'?
February 2nd, 2016 at 3:10 PM ^
It's very commencement speech-y with the added bonus of having the typical DFW flare one comes to expect from him. I liked it a lot and I think about it almost every time I go to the grocery store.
February 2nd, 2016 at 3:29 PM ^
I think it's words to live by. The video that condensed the speech is very well done. I'm a psychologist, and I show this to pretty much all of my clients when I teach about mindfulness and choice in how we see/experience the world.
February 2nd, 2016 at 4:08 PM ^
Don't have enough posts to upvote yet, but thanks for posting this video. Glad I read down.
February 2nd, 2016 at 8:04 PM ^
Thank you for posting. Really interesting to think about.
February 2nd, 2016 at 4:01 PM ^
we used the thesis statement of that piece in our wedding. srs.
February 2nd, 2016 at 4:24 PM ^
I used a portion of that speech in my best mans speech at my best friends wedding.
It is so important.
February 3rd, 2016 at 9:05 PM ^
Glad to hear it. Didn't use it my wedding, but in the post-ceremony speeches.
February 2nd, 2016 at 2:16 PM ^
If you're looking for more DFW Ohio-based stories, The Soul is not a Smithy is another good one. Its not too long, but does pack a lot in. Its become my sole image of life in Columbus for some reason.
February 2nd, 2016 at 1:49 PM ^
Go for it & stick with it. I'm hooked now.
Via Audible.com. Narrator is great. Plot is there. Took me probably until about 25-30% of the way into the book to see where plot lines start to converge.
Dialogue is really good and so is character development, hardest thing for me was figuring out what was important to the story and what was just a ridiculously high level of detail.
February 2nd, 2016 at 2:06 PM ^
It took me nearly 250 pages before I really started to get into Infinite Jest, but I will say, once I got to that point, it started clicking. By the end of the novel, I would say it became my favorite novel of all time.
February 2nd, 2016 at 1:50 PM ^
Fuck. That. Book.
ponderous.
I have to listen to it on audio WHILE reading it in order to absorb anything.
I've owned it for 6 months. I think I've "read" 60 pages.
February 2nd, 2016 at 2:01 PM ^
How does the audio handle the notes?
February 2nd, 2016 at 2:11 PM ^
That's the main reason that I bought the book. I originally purchased the audio book, but then was told that the citations are crucial to the overall enjoyment, which of course they are, so I bought the book to refer to when the narrator calls out a citation. The narrator (who is excellent) will simply finish a sentence and say "34" and then I would pause the audio book and read the cite.
After a while I actually started reading the book along with the audio, which helped me concentrate on the actual writing. Doing that, I felt like I didn't have to do quite so much re-reading to absorb things.
I really do appreciate the work as a whole, and I desperately want to get through it... but it's tough. If you've got the time to devote to it, and can get into a rhythm, its great, but I listen to my audio books in 20 minute to 1 hour spurts; to and from work, at lunch, etc. IJ isn't built for that.
February 2nd, 2016 at 2:17 PM ^
The end notes aren't included in the audio book? That's nuts - they're a crucial part of the book, not like optional notes.
February 2nd, 2016 at 2:46 PM ^
For all I know the end notes are all there, read in sequence at the end... I haven't made it that far (obviously).
But even if they are, there is no way to go from the text straight to the end note, and then back, which is what you'd really want to do.