OT: 2018 MLB HOF class

Submitted by Hotel Putingrad on
Voting results here: ... http://es.pn/2n8u12o Chipper was a no-brainer, and I honestly didn't realize Vlad's stats were so good. Those two, Hoffman and Thome will join Tram and Jack in Cooperstown this summer. Good stuff.
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Jayvandy23

January 24th, 2018 at 7:56 PM ^

I loved Bonds as a player, but being a first rate D-bag to damn-near everyone he dealt with, and the steroids are keeping him out.  His stats would have been good enough to get in.  He wanted to be immortal, and it cost him. 

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GoBLUE_SemperFi

January 24th, 2018 at 8:15 PM ^

...the idea that the HOF should be a personality contest. Bonds is undeniably, one of the best players of all time, d-bag or not...and the steriods, I just don't care. I don't see many meat heads transitioning from Gold's Gym to the MLB.

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snarling wolverine

January 24th, 2018 at 8:42 PM ^

You may not care that he cheated, but a lot of others do.  And obviously he thought they gave him an advantage (and the fact that he suddenly hit 73 home runs in a season sure suggests they did).

Yeah, he probably could have been a HOF player without the roids.  But he decided to cheat anyway.

 

 

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GoBLUE_SemperFi

January 24th, 2018 at 8:52 PM ^

...that's why a player of his caliber is still not in, while players like Chipper Jones are in.  No slam on Jones, I was a huge fan while he was playing...but he's no Bonds.

 

It's an opinion.  I'm not trying to move people off their spot, just pointing out mine.

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JBE

January 24th, 2018 at 7:46 PM ^

That’s certainly a lofty claim. One of the best in the steroids era for sure, along with Sosa and McGuire, and none of them should make the hall. You look at clean Pittsburgh Bonds and he may, maybe, make the hall with seven more years or so of that production, but he fucked up his career. He is not one of the best players of all time. He’s an illusion from an illusionary era.

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Alton

January 24th, 2018 at 7:46 PM ^

If he had suffered a career-ending injury on the day he injected his first steroid, he would still be a hall-of-famer.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bondsba01.shtml

His career pretty much followed a normal (superstar) path from age 21 to 34.  Peak speed at the age of 25, peak power at the age of 28.  Nothing out of the ordinary, other than the fact that he was a great ballplayer.  And then weird things started happening in his mid-30s.

Credible steroid accusations would start in 1999 or 2000 for him.  He was already a 500-HR hitter.  He already had 400 SB.  He already had 2000 hits. 

So fine, ignore everything after 1999.  Is he a hall of famer, ignoring everything after 1999?  Clearly yes.

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Leatherstocking Blue

January 24th, 2018 at 9:47 PM ^

The hall of fame refers to that period as the steroid era throughout the museum. My guess is that once the relatively clean players are elected from that era, the known users will be considered, with some qualifier on their plaque designating their accomplishments as being tainted by steroids.

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Kevin13

January 25th, 2018 at 2:09 PM ^

the fact of the matter is you can't ignore what he did and what he did was cheat while playing game. Sure many players did the same thing and they are all paying the price for it today.

In society you don't reward a person for cheating. He is still and all time great and he has the numbers to back it up, but he doesn't belong in a hall of other great players who never cheated the game and did it the right way their entire career.

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Goggles Paisano

January 25th, 2018 at 5:34 AM ^

Willie McCovey was just quoted on that fairly recently.  They took them to be able to get up enough energy to play the game everyday.  It was about recovery then and about strength and recovery later.  The steroid era got way out of hand with it but there is no denying the greats of the steroid era like Bonds, Clemens and McGwire.  It is obviously a polarizing topic.  I think they should be in just as Pete Rose should be in.  This is based on nothing more than their performance on the field.  Not sure if Pete will ever be granted the amnesty, but I do think the roiders will get in one day.  May be well off into the future, but I think they will ultimately get there.  

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Jasper

January 24th, 2018 at 8:20 PM ^

I agree.

Sure, Bonds was an ass. Of course he was on 'roids.

But, MLB turned a blind eye to the issue for years. (Funny that no one important squawked when McGwire was delighting fans of "America's Sport.") Quite a few pitchers were juicing, too. You do what you need to do to get by, right?

Question: Where is the boundary placed? Who gets a pass? Who doesn't?

If I were in charge, Barry would be in the Hall of Fame.

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gordify

January 24th, 2018 at 8:41 PM ^

Steroids might not have been widely used years ago but they were around. Mickey Mantle used to get steroids shot into his hip. And Kurt Shilling is a hypocrite. Calling out juiced up players but meanwhile gets a shot in the ankle that allows him to play that night. If that isn’t cheating I don’t know what is.

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DrMantisToboggan

January 24th, 2018 at 7:50 PM ^

I agree. I know that the guy cheated. He was still one of the best to ever play the game without the steroids. What he did, even on steroids, is incredibly impressive. Even before the roids he was a generational pro player. He should be in the Hall, and so should Pete Rose. Throw whatever disclaimer you want on their plaque, but those are two of the best bats to ever play.

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SpinachAssassin

January 24th, 2018 at 7:36 PM ^

Vlad was incredible watching as a kid. Had a ridiculous arm and the way he just kind of flicked his wrists to move the bat just before a pitch was kind of hypnotizing. Then he'd hit an ankle high pitch into the opposite field bleachers. Incredible.

Also happy to see Hells Bells get in. Never really felt he got the national run he should have. You knew the changeup was coming and people still couldn't hit it.

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ST3

January 24th, 2018 at 7:36 PM ^

I got to see him play regularly with the Angels. He was a unique talent. Huge, looping swing. There was no way to pitch around him. If the ball was within a foot of the strike zone, he would be swinging and if he connected the ball would rocket off his bat. No doubt Hall of Famer, but his vote total benefitted from him spending about half his time in each league. Everyone got to experience Vlad.

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Bambi

January 24th, 2018 at 9:04 PM ^

I'm fine with Hoffman getting in. Saves, like wins, are a very arbitrary and often useless stat. He only threw barely over 1000 innings in his career which is around what a starter would throw in 6 or so seasons. Sabermetrics and peripheral stats (K/9, K/BB, ERA+, WAR, FIP, etc.) don't love the guy. I understand why people don't want him in.

But at the same time the reason why like those sabermetrics and peripheral stats is to help us predict who will be successful in the future. If you strike guys out and don't put guys on base you're more likely to be consistently good in the future. But if you're a guy like Hoffman who was consistently good without being overly dominant, does it matter? An out is an out, and he got a bunch of them at a highly successful rate. 

Hoffman's role was to do one thing, get saves. And he was great at it, 2nd best of all time. We now know the role is overrated, but it's not Hoffman's fault that role was valued at the time, and he was so successful at it. I don't like punishing him for that. And despite that, he has the 21st best WPA of all time for pitchers (ahead of guys like Ryan, Marichal, Koufax, Gossage etc.) so it's not like he didn't provide immense value to his team. I'm okay with him being in. If I had a vote I would have put others guys in over him (Edgar, Bonds, Clemens to name a few), but I'm good with him being in there.

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