Mo Wagner Legacy:
A question I was pondering last night after the game:
Is Mo Wagner a "Big Game In A Win" away from being considered in the upper echelon of Michigan basketball players like Glen Rice, Trey Burke, and Cazzie Russell? This is assuming he doesn't come back, and Monday is the last game we see him play.
With a big game on Monday and a win, then the answer is yes.
He'll definitely be a legend. He maybe hasn't been quite as consistent as those guys, but when he's at his best, he's a superstar. And he usually saves his Peak Moe performances for the big games.
A win Monday will solidify this team in our minds forever. Even without that, they've way over accomplished.
I think by getting to the championship they have solidified themselves. But a win would take them to a whole new level obviously.
If Mo had a monster game and won MOP he'd be a top candidate for having his jersey retired down the line, probably above even Trey Burke. If they lose, he'll be remembered on a similar level with Burkeb, but both would be well outside the realm of Cazzie & Rice.
I love Wagner but no don't he would be at rafter raising status even with a big game and win. And definetely disagree with Ace that a win would put him in over Burke.
asking a poll question is not the same as expressing an opinion, please don't put words in my mouth.
Jordan Poole!
tomorrow's essay spoilers, man
My swim trunks rolled up..
in anticipation of the wetness
Misread the tweet, that is my bad. My opinion stays the same though. Wagner is a fantastic human but he just hasn't been consistent enough to be a rafters guy.
And you're an asshole so who cares about your opinion?
particularly such grammatically incorrect words...
Regardless he deserves to have his jersey up in the rafters in about 10 years
There are a few other guys I'd like to see us honor first. I'm surprised we've never honored Gary Grant, for one. He had over 2,200 points and 700 assists.
Grant's comment right after he left, that if he had it to do all over again, he'd have gone to UCLA kinda cemented that deal. It didn't help that his teams were generally viewed as underachievers.
This team’s success feels way more like the sum is greater than the parts, like the mid 2000s Pistons. Burke was the player of the year and carried a good team to near greatness. Rice had a GOAT tourney performance. Wagner has been way too inconsistent to put him in that same category.
This is all very hypothetical because it's contingent on a game that hasn't happened yet. In the NCAA tournament one game can change a lot.
Tomorrow is 70% to be a loss. The hypothetical here is Moe with a great game and a Michigan win. That's a huge, huge data point that doesn't exist yet.
Consider Tom Brady's Michigan-only legacy without the Penn State comeback or Alabama game.
Might be just a little early to determine his legacy. Legacy implies reflecting back at a bit of a distance, as far as I’m concerned.
That Trey Burke steal on Appling still makes me lose my mind. The man was on a mission that year.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fJODw_PidM
Wagner is terrific and one of the best to suit up for us. But winning National Player of the Year is a different stratosphere. Kind of like how Mo Hurst and Jabrill are some of the best to ever suit up for the football team, but they're not Charles Woodson or Tom Harmon.
I've never noticed the floor slap after the steal. Just rubbing it in, so awesome!
It always makes me think of Trey Burke and his inner need to personally tell them to go to hell.
At 0:20 of that video, is that Brendan Dawson getting pissed at Keith Appling for losing the ball, and Izzo futily trying to calm them down?
That video leaves out the second steal he got, right after that, to clinch the game.
we had Trey on this team. Then Michigan would be favored by 7.
The one I think more about is if DJ Wilson were on this team, which could have actually happened.
Izzo looks so much younger there. he has aged like carp the last 5 years.
Seems kind of fishy
If he pulls out another double double and Meesh wins...he will be a legend...status: Fully Santioned Warlord.
If he pulls out another double double and Meesh wins...he will be a legend...status: Fully Santioned Warlord.
Sparty finished that game with four straight possessions of turnovers. Peak MSU
You know it, we know it, I just don’t understand why people post these threads. Get hyped for the game....worry about the legacy stuff after the last game of the season has been played.
Times 1,000.
Thanks for expressing this, CaliWolverine.
Win or lose tomorrow night, I just love that MSU and OSU fans absolutely HATE the kid. And I think Wagner relishes in that fact as well.
If they hate him, that means he’s doing something right.
He is very good, but I see him as first among near-equals. This team doesn't win without Z's defense, MAAR's steady minutes, Duncan's 6+ points per game, or Matthews all-around game. It also doesn't win without Poole's heroics or Teske's contributions.
We have been winning because other teams can't game plan to shutdown our best player because who is our best player? That's what scares me about Nova. All 5 guys can shoot the 3.
If he didn't pass up the NBA, none of this happens. He's the mismatch that makes the offense dangerous. Above all, he's a gem of a human being. He passed up on Euroball to even come to college. Beilein himself said that Moe is in an elite group for him (for all of his coaching stops combined). A National Championship puts him in the elite status for me.
The only player who can rival Rice is Russell. Moe would have to put on an otherwordly show in a Michigan victory to be properly put in the same category as Rice and Russell, and it's highly unlikely because his role on this team is very different from that of Rice and Russell's on theirs.
a player and teammate in championship achievement. It's like saying now that Tom Brady was a great Michigan player but he never achieved what Brian Griese earned or what Moe now has the opportunity to achieve.
The team that Beilein took to the 2013 NCAA championship game, probably had greater talent as part of its component parts.
Moe, at times, this season has looked pro-ready. Other nights not so much. When he is on, he is really something. Other times he can seem ordinary. Cazzie and Rice were fabulously talented basketball players and great scorers who earned their college superstardom. I don't think Moe does anything that makes him standout above those legends from Michigan's past.
But he is the man on this team that makes it special and coordinates so well with its diverse pieces and play as a team leader.
In the end, winning manifests legacy in a way losing only shadows and dares question such declaration. But then, this is a team game. And Michigan has increasingly achieved more as a basketball team while Moe has been key part of it. That is his lasting legacy, a great Michigan Man who who helped his team win at a level no one ever expected.
Maybe a rafters kind of dude but he should probably come back for one more year just to be sure... (flashes the "hopefully" eyes)...
His stats for the tournament, per minute played, are off the charts!!
Hail CJ Baird!
No one on the team can match his productivity. He's just begging for a spot in the starting lineup. Make it happen Beilein!
Whatever his legacy is, it should be set to this music. Can someone do a highlight reel of Wagner squared in A-squared?!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGU1P6lBW6Q
Mo has had some great games and some not as great games, but his legacy in my heart will be his utter joy and emotion on the court. Couple this with his genuine personality off the court and his deeply expressed love of going to school in Ann Arbor and he will always be special to me. Having a hot mom doesn’t hurt, either.
Mo has had some great games and some not as great games, but his legacy in my heart will be his utter joy and emotion on the court. Couple this with his genuine personality off the court and his deeply expressed love of going to school in Ann Arbor and he will always be special to me. Having a hot mom doesn’t hurt, either.
“What do you know about sister jean?”
Moe: “I know she didn’t [have Loyola] in her elite 8.”
Germans are the best trash talkers in their own subtle way.
And Mo had them out before the championship game.
If he plays at the level he did yesterday or Louisville last year, and we pull off the, he will be remembered as one of the greats. We have one national championship, so the bona fide leader of the second national championship team has a spot in history.
Is he as consistent or at as great as Cazzie, Rice, Webber, or Burke? No, but he does have an uncanny ability to show up in the biggest games.
Moe is without a doubt th swaggiest wolverine basketball player that has ever swagged
I love Moe and think he's already an all time great, but Nik was definitely the most swaggy, without question. Crossing up Hayes and burying a three for the win in Madison, blowing kisses to Sparty after winning in EL, canning threes to beat Florida and go to the Final Four. But Moe has a chance to give Nik a run for his money depending on what he does tomorrow night...