Original Sin Comment Count

Brian

11/18/2017 – Michigan 10, Wisconsin 24 – 8-3, 5-3 Big Ten

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[Bryan Fuller]

In the aftermath of a good thing that turned bad, or vice-versa, there's always the attempt to say This Was The Moment. Most of the time this is just ad-hoc narrative placement; obligatory XKCD link goes here. Not so Saturday. Anyone attempting to slap a big ol' narrative on Michigan-Wisconsin couldn't help but land on Brandon Peters lying on the turf, and the team-wide deflation that took place immediately afterwards. And... yessir. You are correct.

Wisconsin's offense had just emerged from a deep and restful slumber to go up 14-10 thanks to consecutive third and long conversions, one a 51-yard slot fade at a guy who was Not Lavert Hill, the other a slick double post route that Alex Hornibrook executed on. Before that the Wisconsin offense looked like any other Big Ten outfit beset with a quarterback trying to find out how many limbs he had. The Badgers had eight drives; they had four first downs*.

Maybe if Michigan was still up because the replay official was any average person on the internet capable of deciphering a still frame...

...or a two-hand shove in the back to Ambry Thomas was called on a freak punt return TD, the defense would have held together better. As it was, being down four points with the dead certainty in your heart that you will not score is an invitation to crack. We saw that many times under Brady Hoke, the valiant three quarters undone by an exhausted and spiritless fourth. That and a quarterback assaulted to the point where he could not continue.

-----------------------------

Michigan's not real good this year for a variety of reasons. Foremost amongst them is pass protection even Devin Gardner thinks is bad. Michigan is down two quarterbacks headed into the Ohio State game, which is bad even for a program that can't get their QB to the final week without some Spinal Tap drummer business befalling him. This is the original sin of the Michigan offense.

Some of the things that happen are relatively explicable: freshman Cesar Ruiz screws up in his first start; Mason Cole occasionally proves he's not an NFL left tackle; a running back gets run over. What takes Michigan from mediocre to awful is the inexplicable stuff.

Michigan's pass protection has often been absurd this year, what with gentlemen going entirely unblocked on any sort of stunt, or not-stunt. This reached its apex on third and six in the first half when Garrett Dooley, an outside linebacker who entered the game with a team-leading 6.5 sacks, lined up clearly intending to rush and ran directly at Brandon Peters for a thunder-sack. Juwann Bushell-Beatty was the nearest OL; he was blocking another dude. Cesar Ruiz, a gap further inside, also had a rusher. Chris Evans went in a route immediately. Patrick Kugler ended up blocking nobody.

There were two other instances of horrendous pass protection that saw Michigan fail to handle a stunt. On one Karan Higdon chopped a guy ably; Kugler left his man to also block that guy. That resulted in a chop-block call. Meanwhile, Kugler's guy ran up the middle and sacked Peters. The Peters injury was another stunt on which Kugler was the most obvious culprit.

Kugler might be a major issue. That's certainly the nicest way to interpret Michigan's pass protection issues since he's gone next year, and anything that's the nicest way to think about a problem should be interrogated thoroughly. But I don't remember things like this happening last year, when Mason Cole was at center. Kugler hasn't been physically overmatched—he generally grades out okay to well in UFR—so the most obvious reason he hasn't been able to get on the field until year five is an inability hack it mentally. I wonder if Michigan would stick with Cole at center and whatever may come at tackle if they had a do-over.

Probably not if the second best tackle on the roster is then Nolan Ulizio.

There are two ways to proceed from here. One is to point out the colossal failure of Brady Hoke's offensive line recruiting and the Grant Newsome injury, which is currently in its second year. Michigan had barely enough dudes to field a good OL and a cliff after, and then the least replaceable guy went out, etc.

The other is to point at a fifth-year senior at center who's organizing one of America's very worst pass protection units and wonder why Tim Drevno and company couldn't field, like, the #80 pass pro unit with a bunch of highly touted four stars. This line of questioning will pause briefly to note the total lack of tackles in the 2015 class after Swenson was booted and Hamilton flipped to Stanford. It will also cherry-pick random freshmen or backups from the history of college football who weren't total disasters.

The latter take is way more likely to @ you, or call a radio station to declare something UNACCEPTABLE, but it's correct. (Ish.) So is the calmer take. Both are correct except insofar as they ignore the correctness of the other half of the equation. Michigan was unprepared to block this season, and that's because they aren't the kind of program that just reloads everywhere. Part of that is having your six-man class of would-be redshirt seniors whittled down to one guy who might not be very good, and part of that is that Michigan's reloading with Rashan Gary on defense and Nolan Ulizio on offense.

We'll see what happens next year. I don't have enough information to start yelling about it. I do have enough to approach the game this weekend with zero expectations other than pain. That's all too familiar, but whatever.

*[I am counting the drive right before the half since it started with 2:20 on the clock.]

AWARDS

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[Patrick Barron]

Known Friends And Trusted Agents Of The Week

-2535ac8789d1b499[1]you're the man now, dog

#1 Mo Hurst. I am pretty sure that the long run was on the other DT, not Hurst, which means that Hurst was a major force in the middle without much to blame as Michigan throttled the Wisconsin offense almost wholly until a late fade.

#2(T) Chase Winovich and Rashan Gary. See above: Gary was regularly tackled by his opponent but still got drive and sent backs elsewhere; Winovich had two TFLs against a Wisconsin O that rarely gives them up. This is a point split here because I want it to be. The points are made up and don't matter.

#3 Donovan Peoples-Jones. Four catches for 64 yards and one should-have-been touchdown on which he did (barely) get his left foot down first. Translating from Michigan offense to normal offense, that's approximately 300 yards and six touchdowns.

Honorable mention: Devin Bush had a Default Hornibrook Interception; though Aubrey Solomon had a solid day early but may have faded late. Long and Watson were all over the UW receivers; Metellus and Kinnel both got called for some garbage PI calls but were in excellent coverage otherwise.

KFaTAotW Standings.

8: Devin Bush (#1 Florida, T2 Cincinnati, T2 Air Force, #1 Purdue), Mo Hurst (#1 MSU, #2(T), Indiana, #1 Wisconsin).   
7: Karan Higdon (#1 Indiana, #2 PSU, T2 Minnesota).
6: Mason Cole (#1 Cincinnati, T2 Rutgers, T3 Minnesota), Chase Winovich(#1 Air Force, #2a Purdue, T2 Wisconsin), Rashan Gary(T2 Indiana, #1 Rutgers, T2 Wisconsin).   
5: Khaleke Hudson (T2 Cincinnati, #3 PSU, #1 Minnesota), David Long (T3 Indiana, #1 PSU, #3 Maryland)    
4: Chris Evans(T2 Minnesota, #2 Maryland).   
3: Ty Isaac (#2, Florida, #3 Cincinnati), Lavert Hill(#2 MSU, T3 Indiana)), Josh Metellus (#1 Maryland).   
2: Quinn Nordin (#3 Florida, #3 Air Force), John O'Korn (#2 Purdue), Sean McKeon(T3 Purdue, #3 Rutgers), Mike Onwenu(T2 Rutgers),
1: Tyree Kinnel (T2 Cincinnati), Mike McCray(T2 Air Force), Zach Gentry (T3 Purdue), Brad Robbins(#3 MSU), Brandon Watson (T3 Indiana), Ben Bredeson(T3 Minnesota), Donovan Peoples-Jones (#3 Wisconsin).

Who's Got It Better Than Us Of The Week

Quinn Nordin hits a field goal to put Michigan up 10-7, which momentarily feels like enough.

Honorable mention: Michigan scores a touchdown!

imageMARCUS HALL EPIC DOUBLE BIRD OF THE WEEK.

10-7 turns to not be enough as Jaylen Kelly-Powell is torched on a slot fade that Hornibrook slots in there. Major question why JKP was deployed there since that coverage instance was far worse than any slot fade the safeties had dealt with this year.

Honorable mention: Brandon Peters is blasted out of the game. Brandon Peters is blasted earlier.

[After THE JUMP: eat at Arby's]

OFFENSE

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[Patrick Barron]

Peters was functional-ish. 9 of 18 for 157 yards is 8.7 yards an attempt, but Michigan had little faith in him until it was clear they shouldn't have any in the run game about halfway through the second. A wildcat-timeout-pitchout series of events on third and eight was frustrating.

When allowed to drop back without being immediately pressured, Peters was good-ish. His accuracy was a bit off on a couple throws, most notably a shot to McKeon in the endzone that got broken up.

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big versus little [Fuller]

You'll note McKeon is on one of the hoodie brothers. Michigan split McKeon out early a few times, and I have to imagine the idea there is that he can box out the much smaller DB. So throwing to him is fine, but Peters put it over the top of both guys instead of trying to back-shoulder it, in a situation that—I assume—exists primarily to be a back-shoulder throw.

But he hit a few guys downfield and probably could have shouldered more of the load if every dropback wasn't a threat to send him to the hospital. The fumble was a bummer, and an extremely poor... something. Maybe it was just ball handling, but Peters had zero shot to get to the endzone and the extra yard or whatever he was going to get even if the scramble went well made no difference. Even so I'd call that an encouraging performance, especially given the context.

At least for next year. I can't imagine Peters will be available next week. Even if it's a concussion, which seems like the best case scenario, that seems like the kind of concussion you don't recover from in a week.

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no [Fuller]

Speaking of that wildcat. What the hell, man? Lining up Chris Evans in the backfield by himself and running "wildcat" that doesn't even include the misdirection screen/sweep stuff that makes that approach even mildly functional was the best thing Michigan came up with in a month of walkovers? Michigan couldn't even get lined up on these things, which makes me think they were thrown in this week. For... reasons. What a waste of time. Someone find the wildcat enthusiast on the coaching staff and cuff them about the ears.

Someone threw it to him. Congratulations to Donovan Peoples-Jones, who finally has something to show for being hand-wavingly wide open deep all year. Previous incompletions were almost never his deal.

TJ Edwards did work. Two different power plays on which it looked like Michigan had done enough to get a solid gain went down at or near the line of scrimmage because Wisconsin ILB TJ Edwards "got skinny in the hole," per the scouting jargon, and slashed by Cesar Ruiz. I thought those plays were more indicative of an All American-level linebacker than a serious knock on Ruiz. That'll be a learning experience for him.

I haven't gone over the tape in detail yet but Michigan definitely tried to mess with the Wisconsin middle linebackers and they were having none of it. There were a couple of plays where I thought the action was different and expected some success; there was no success.

RIP the run game. I dunno, man. They got killed. Because this is the way of all promising Michigan things. Suspect that a total lack of respect for the passing game was a major factor, because DPJ was again set free on a post route without any safety help.

DEFENSE

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[Fuller]

Alex Hornibrook, explained. Soooo we figured out Wisconsin's bizarre passing stats, in which a team that can't protect and throws a bunch of picks somehow comes out looking pretty good, and is awesome on passing downs. It turns out Alex Hornibrook throws into coverage constantly and is excellent at doing so. A half-dozen Wisconsin completions were seeing-eye balls that only reached the receiver after passing through the eye of a needle... and they only had nine completions. The two completions on their first TD drive are the only ones I can remember where a receiver achieved any separation. The rest of the day it was the above, where you couldn't even get slightly mad at Michigan's coverage.

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[Barron]

Help? No? No. Wisconsin's run game did almost nothing until after the Peters injury, and then they got thunked, first on a long run by Jonathan Taylor and then more steadily as their light dimmed. It still boggles the mind that Taylor averaged 7 yards a carry. That is not at all what that game felt like. It's mostly just the one long run; Wisconsin only had 2.6 line yards a carry.

SPECIAL TEAMS

DPJ is not suited to return punts maybe? Peoples-Jones had a few opportunities to return punts that looked initially promising, but his tendency to dance and lack of insta-quicks saw those fail to amount to anything. Peoples-Jones is obviously a very fast person but seems better suited to kickoffs, where that's almost all that matters, than a punt return where being able to juke a guy in a phonebooth is almost a requirement to do anything.

Yes, I know he had a TD early in the year. I still think Eddie McDoom or Chris Evans or Ambry Thomas would be a better option back there.

A field goal: made. Barely, but it counts!

MISCELLANEOUS

A hearty thanks to everyone who just goes about their lives after a bad game. There are so many more of you than it seems like, because you're drinking and playing Mario Kart or making a casserole or fighting the mighty Gronthar. You are not replying to a Huge tweet and tagging half the Michigan beat. Hey buddy, if I wanted to hear the opinion of a Huge caller I'd listen to Huge.

The GAME THEORY. Michigan drove to the Wisconsin 41 and punted on fourth and six. I was more or less fine with this, and the thunder-sack on third and six on the next drive rather drove the point home. This was destined to be a rock fight, and when you're in a 1950s game you can make 1950s decisions. Fourth and three, I'm listening, but fourth and six is an expectation of success low enough that I'd rather have the field position.

HERE

Best and Worst:

Worst: Piping Hot Takes

No fanbase handles losses particularly well, and Michigan is no different. Usually after a loss like this, you'll maybe get some high-profile knuckleheads chiming in with inane comments, a whole slew of naysayers with the pitchforks and the memes (10 years without a road win against a ranked team! was the new one this week) aplenty, and a heavy dose of trollish "fans" who have super-detailed opinions about the quality of the Nike uniforms and how often they've beaten their rivals but couldn't name more than 3 starters on the team. It's the nature of the beast, and Michigan being one of the most prominent programs in country, you'll get a surplus of them.

And I'd love to say it's best to ignore these voices, not because every negative opinion should be treated as invalid, but because they tend to be lazy and without anything meaningful behind them beyond stunted anger. Braylon Edwards questioning why John O'Korn got a scholarship is just him being an asshole; his attempts to walk it back were about as lame as you'd expect from someone claiming "Wtf approved his scholarship and transfer????????" was cogent college football analysis. Of course, he's also one of the few Wolverines I've seen with his own detailed "Legal Issues" entry in his Wikipedia bio, so perhaps none of this should have been a surprise.

The season, a discussion, in two parts. Part the first:

Is a successful season more like a fine wine or an S&P ranking?

~~Chuck says, "The answer is always wine."~~

I was initially surprised by responses claiming that season success is an inherently subjective matter. User ChiBlueBoy summarized:

"I also appreciate trying to put some numbers to something that will always be subjective (in Jr. High I created a mathematical formula to determine if someone was "attractive," so the desire to quantify the subjective resonates with me)."

My first reaction was to scoff at this comparison. Perhaps only because I had spent a decent chunk of time making the scoring metric, but I viewed the idea as more like S&P and trying to make objective measures of a team's offense and defense. Just like it is valid to say that a running play is objectively "successful" if it gets at least 4-5 yards on first down, it is valid to say that objective components of a "successful" season include beating our rivals and winning the Big Ten title.

And part the second. A history of coin flips against Ohio State. Spoiler: there is something wrong with the coin. The bowl picture points towards San Diego. And probably Arizona, if bowl people care more about ratings than MGoJen's feelings.

ELSEWHERE

I barely want to read my take from this game, but here's a Japanese game show!

Japan! What a good country! Although there is definitely someone @ing a Japanese guy about the unacceptable performance of the guy in orange!

Comments

DenverBuckeye

November 20th, 2017 at 8:13 PM ^

Agree to disagree, I suppose. We've seen both Haskins and Burrow get some game time over the last two years and both have impressed overall. They'll compete for the starting spot next year and we Buckeye fans are excited about the winner.

Pepto Bismol

November 20th, 2017 at 8:40 PM ^

Running Meyer's spread, which is a well-oiled machine at this point, is not an option for Peters, Speight or O'Korn.

If OSUs backups played in the Michigan offense, they'd be running the John O'Korn panic-ball offense and scrambling for their lives. I thought this was obvious, but apparently you need this spelled out - Michigan's offense isn't in the same galaxy as OSUs right now, regardless of QB. They are polar opposites in design and personnel.

Being happy with garbage-time read-option snaps while up a billion on the Illiniois and Rutgers of the world means absolutely nothing if they have to run Michigan's overmatched offense tomorrow. I'm not saying OSUs QBs are no good, I'm saying you have no clue what would happen if they played here.

Mgoczar

November 21st, 2017 at 3:02 AM ^

DB serious?

This is prostyle - not the offense that Meyer runs. I'm sorry but in big games barret runabout 20 times to try to win it not throw to win (PSU I'll give you that). That's what what Tebow was. So Harbaugh hasn't hit Luck yet, he will soon don't you worry. Appreciate the comment but I personally believe OSU offense has been "figured out" and I expect them to lose 2-3 games every year starting this year going forward and lose spectacularly in the playoffs should they make it.

smwilliams

November 20th, 2017 at 3:18 PM ^

FWIW, I went back through the past 3 years to take a look at some of the yardage numbers in close games. Take from this what you will:

2015

@Utah (L by 7): Michigan outgains Utah 355-337, loses TO battle 3-1 including a Pick-6
 
- Michigan probably deserved to lose this game even with the Pick-6 and the TO in Utah territory on another throw to Perry.
 
vs MSU (L by 5): Michigan outgained 386-230, dropped punt
 
- I don't remember this being that lopsided. IIRC, the yardage differential was largely due to O'Neill's punts consistently putting State inside their own 10. Still, took a one in a million play to lose.
 
@Minnesota (W by 3): Michigan outgained 461-296, bad clock management
 
- Karma for the MSU game, maybe? Michigan is badly outgained, but survives because of maybe the worst clock management in a game, ever. That said, I would've gladly flipped the outcome of the two games.
 
@Indiana (W by 7, 2OT): Michigan outgains Indiana 581-527, PR
 
- This is the one that went to Double OT, but probably should've never gotten there. Indiana's kicker made all 4 FGs and they had a wacky 51-yard PR for a TD.
 
@OSU (L by 29): Michigan outgained 482-364, game is 14-10 at half before Speight goes out
 
- Closer than I remember. It seems QBs getting injured before or during this game is becoming a trend.
 
2016
 
vs Wisconsin (W by 7): Michigan outgains Wisconsin 349-159, 3 missed FGs
 
- Michigan dominates this game, but misses 3 FGs. 
 
at Iowa (L by 1): Michigan outgained 230-201, loses TO battle 2-1, punts inside the 2
 
- Speight injured and not the same. Michigan was in absolute control of this game from what I remember. A few missed plays here and there. 
 
at OSU (L by 3, OT): Michigan outgained 330-310, loses TO battle 3-1, pick 6 & fumble at the 1 & missed PIs & the spot
 
- Again, if Michigan wins this (as they should've), they probably win the B1G and go to the CFP, and nobody is remotely upset about 8-3 this year. So many things had to go wrong (to be fair, OSU's reliable kicker missed several FGs as well), that it certainly seems like fate was gainst us.
 
vs FSU (L by 1): Michigan outgained 371-252

 
- No Peppers and a talented FSU team that started this year ranked #2 (even w/o Dalvin Cook). Probably deserved to lose this by more than 1. 
 
2017
 
vs MSU (L by 4): Michigan outgains MSU 300-252, loses TO battle 5-0
 
- Yeah, the last part of that explains everything.
 
at Indiana (W by 6, OT): Michigan outgains Indiana 329-278
 
- Included, but I don't remember feeling vaguely threatened until somehow the game ended up in OT.
 
at Penn State (L by 29): Michigan outgained 506-269
 
- The single worst game in the Harbaugh era. 
 
*at Maryland (W by 21): Michigan outgained 340-305
 
- *I was at this game and trust me when I say despite the yardage totals, this never felt close. I'm including it here for posterity, but it was never, ever this close. 
 
at Wisconsin (L by 14): Michigan outgained 325-234, 14-10 in 3rd when Peters goes out
 
- Nearly half of Wisconsin's yards (159 out of 325) come after Peters gets knocked out of the game. 4 total plays (the 3rd down catch against JKP, the TD throw by Hornibrook, Taylor's 52 yard run, and another 27 yard one-handed grab by a Wisconsin WR) also accounted for nearly half their yards. 
 
What does this all mean?
 
Of the 37 games Jim Harbaugh has coached at Michigan, only 13 haven't been complete annhiliations of an opponent at least when it comes to yardage and final score. Harbaugh is 4-9 in those 13 games. 
 
Of those 9 losses, only 3 were by more than one score (2015 OSU, 2017 PSU/Wisconsin). There is one game Michigan won when they should've lost (2015 Minnesota) and 3-5 that they lost when they should've won (2015 MSU, 2016 Iowa & OSU, 2017 MSU and Wisconsin).

Eschstreetalum

November 20th, 2017 at 3:18 PM ^

Hey the OL has generally sucked since the RR era. Aside from Hoke's first year, moving the ball on the ground has been largely to entirely absent. Remember Penn State clobbering us after we had 2 weeks to get ready in RR's last year? Remember Hoke's game with an overall -50 yard rushing effort? You cant pull OL men out of nowhere - they need at least a year of weights and eats to get ready. JH recruited 3 OTs last year and they will be playing with venom next year. Relax!

Eschstreetalum

November 20th, 2017 at 3:18 PM ^

Hey the OL has generally sucked since the RR era. Aside from Hoke's first year, moving the ball on the ground has been largely to entirely absent. Remember Penn State clobbering us after we had 2 weeks to get ready in RR's last year? Remember Hoke's game with an overall -50 yard rushing effort? You cant pull OL men out of nowhere - they need at least a year of weights and eats to get ready. JH recruited 3 OTs last year and they will be playing with venom next year. Relax!

markusr2007

November 20th, 2017 at 4:05 PM ^

That's not great. It's on par with Oklahoma, USC and UCF.

But it is anything but "suck".

I'll grant you that Michigan's passing attack sucks, ranked 111th in the land.

A failure to pass block and pass and catch effectively is why Michigan sucks offensively - ranked 102nd nationally.  Michigan effectively has no offense except what opponents will give up on the ground.

TrueBlue2003

November 20th, 2017 at 5:02 PM ^

in the endzone.  That was the play we ran on 3rd and 6 from Wisconsin's 41.

Given our complete lack of success on fades to everyone from 6'7 TEs to 5'11 McDoom's this year, I was disappointed that was the call when we were in 4-down territory. That's a play with only two possible outcomes: you get 10 yards (about a 25 percent chance given our track record, and the refs certainly weren't gonna call another PI on the first drive) or you get 0 yards (75 percent chance).

Would have much rather seen a run or a shallow crossing route or something with much higher probability of getting some yards and still a possibility of getting the first.  Even if you get 2 or 3 yards, the decision to go for it on maybe 4th and 3 or 4 from inside their 40 is a no-brainer (even though I still think they should have gone for it).

Sopwith

November 20th, 2017 at 3:34 PM ^

Watching them try to understand how to run a wildcat with appropriate motions, fakes, and constraint threats is like watching my parents try to do anything with their iPhone other than make a phone call.

scottiek65

November 20th, 2017 at 3:39 PM ^

I do not get all the criticisms of Coach Harbaugh.  
With this OL and the level of QB play and the injuries, what was he supposed to do?
Yes, Hoke left the OL cupboard bare.  Sure, perhaps Drevno should have done better, 
but this expectation that Harbaugh should be 12-0 or 11-1 despite a mediocre to terrible OL, and poor QB  play is ridiculous, just because this is year 3.
 
Michigan will compete for B1G titles and playoff berths once Harbaugh has a very good QB with experience and a solid OL. Stanford has been known for its OL since Harbaugh started there. When Harbaugh ruled the Pac 12 it was not as competitive as the B1G is now. it was mainly just USC year in and year out. and Oregon who could never deal defensively with power running games.


GIve Coach time to build his QB and his line. Hoke was really that bad and never should have been HC of Michigan.
 
I guess the criticism is borne mostly out of frustration. we were all excited when Jim Harbaugh took the job and we are all tired of the losses during both Rodriguez and Hoke to Sparty and Ohio State and wanted revenge, yesterday. 
 
we all need to be patient,  This Saturday will be most likely humiliating. It will be hard to imagine our offense scoring with OKorn at QB even at home.  
 
Recruiting and coaching will turn this around. If Drevno cannot handle the OL coaching duties, i am sure Harbaugh will see it and make changes next off season.
 
We will get there. 
 

UofM Die Hard …

November 20th, 2017 at 3:55 PM ^

game in my opinion. If we beat MSU at home, "those" Michgian "fans" can probably accept the inevitable 9-3 season..but we didnt and like Sam W. says...that game will haunt us for a long time. 

 

Loses stick with me for a day, sleep on it, wake up, get over it....gotta learn to let these things go people, you'll live longer.  Another year of the same for us which really blows but ohwell what are you going to do?  All our skin should be pretty thick by now

Few of my random thoughts:

- Jim will have three years of recruiting under him by next year, typically that is when you can see the painting start to come to light from the artist (* we need a QB to be healthy, I know)

- Everyone should pray to whoever or whatever they believe in for Grant to be ready to play in 2018...dont have to state how big this would be

- Defense is loaded next year, i mean they did some remarkable shit this year with the youth all over...but that youth popped up.  Year older, year wiser, year stronger...all good things 

- Finally, Hoke era is over next year.  Look I love all Michgian players but Hoke ruined us on offense for a long time..thanks bro. Its finally time to completely move on 

- Peters is a dude in my opinion...what he showed for being so young was impressive. And with this OL....tip of the hat Peters. Find some tackles to protect this guy....look for transfers...do it

Anyway, like most believe here, going to be a tough one Saturday.  Dont go jumping off cliffs, you're used to it, take the loss and move on.  

 

 

markusr2007

November 20th, 2017 at 3:59 PM ^

One might say that Phil Steel is full of shit.  Maybe that's true:

https://philsteele.com/2017/06/23/2017-experience-chart-page-29-of-maga…

Normally such detailed counting and statistical analysis is predictive of future results.

Until it isn't anymore.

Michigan State is 8-3, and will likely finish 9-3

Michigan is 8-3 and will likely finish 8-4

Player injures, it turns out, are random. Just like turnovers.

And when injuries do occur, football teams either have the goods and can mitigate, or they don't and can't.

I think one of the major causes of Michigan fan frustration this year is that while most were successful pre-conditioned to understand that Michigan was one of the youngest teams in the country this fall. MSU, too, was even younger in terms of game experience, returning starters and returning offensive yards. So why would the outcomes be so different?

Losing to a team everyone thought was worse off than you were is the fulcrum point in my opinion. Too many Michigan fans can't let that one go. Harbaugh is 1-2 and lost at home to what was supposed to be one of the worst MSU teams in years.

Michigan's 2017 season best case scenario was always 10-2 or 11-1.  It's worse case scenario was 7-5.   An 8-4 Michigan team in 2017 is probably exactly what we thought they were realistically.

Next year Michigan loses it's starting FBs (Hill, Poggi), T Mason Cole and C Kugler. They will return 8+ starters on offense.

On defense Michigan only loses Maurice Hurst and Mike Mcray. They will have 9 starters on defense of the #15 ranked rushing D, #1 ranked pass defense and #11 ranked scoring defense.

Michigan will be in a better than good position to dominate the conference next fall.

The offensive line will be shored up with Filiaga, Ruiz, J. Hall, Steuber, Honigford as well as Mayfield and Hayes in 2018.

 Prepare your shades gentlemen. The future is bright.

Kevin Holtsberry

November 20th, 2017 at 4:08 PM ^

is with program furstration and history versus individual games and seasons.  Our incredibly bad luck in The Game (see coin toss diary), with MSU of late, and in top-10 opponents colors the emotions of fans.  Ohio State is a dominant team and MSU and PSU are going to chamionships games.  Michigan is in the longest drought in recent memory.  But this 15-16 year history is complicated, contingent and even random at times and can't be blamed on one person or issue.  So fans have to lash out at someone. The current coach plays that role.  Given how much he makes and how much hype there is surrounding the program, that is almost understandable; the emotions are understandable not the comments or logical used to justify them.

A lot of fans are also in denial about the whole Harbaugh is digging out of and the challenges he faces.  They assumed based on the first year that it was National Championship or bust. A down year becomes "unacceptable."

Fans want a game that makes all the pain and suffering of the last decade and a half seem worth it.  Maybe Saturday will be it.  More likely is a long hard slog until the talent matures and a great year happens.

JTrain

November 20th, 2017 at 4:46 PM ^

I agree on the DPJ assessment. I think he’d be better on kick return than punt. I expected with his Nike SPARQ scores he would have amazing quick twitch, lateral quickness. I dunno. Seems to hesitate a lot. Not sure where wants to go? I guess this is one area Jabrill definitely is missed.

Don’t get me wrong. I think DPJ is a stud. Just not sure PR is his thing.

Sopwith

November 20th, 2017 at 5:00 PM ^

as a big chunk of us were, we're fine, we're on schedule, and only injuries have kept us from getting ahead of schedule.

But if 2018 isn't a straight up MurderDeathKill Machine, especially if Newsome is back, then you can start chipping away at my confidence and I'll be posting hot takes like "we should have gotten Harbaugh straight from Stanford before the NFL blanked out his college genius hard drive and wrote over it with NFL oh-god-why-is-this-so-uncreative" bullshit.

 

 

UofM Die Hard …

November 20th, 2017 at 6:15 PM ^

on a few things:

1. While I agree we arent in the same zip code as OSU, MSU needed a drop by our punter to beat us in Jim's first year, we whooped them at thieir place last year, and they squeeked one out against us this year with our 2nd/3rd string QB, the youngest team in the B1G, and with a very bad OL. Credit to them for winning those close games, but I disagree that we continually finish behind them.

2. Penn State is in their blip year, beat them at home in Jim's first year, whooped their ass last year, they whooped us this year.  Franklin is an awful coach but they caught us in their "good" year, opened the playbook and took it to us.  Credit to them but I bet Jim has his number a lot more going forward

3. Until Jim starts losing these bright light games with all his experienced recruits playing...I think its way too early to say we are the "best of the rest"

 

 

mishler3

November 20th, 2017 at 8:42 PM ^

Normal protocol is to not speak of officiating prior to a game. Popovich is great at trying to set a tone before a playoff series. Harbaugh should at least hint about how Rashan Gary gets “held” a lot. Every bit helps if UM is to win this weekend.

Steve333

November 21st, 2017 at 8:34 AM ^

I’m holding out hope that the Cosching staff comes through with something, anything to stay competitive in this game. With no experience at QB, and actually a QB who simply is terrified to just throw the ball up in the air deep- we should hope that the coaching staff goes with a wildcat look a lot of the time- something. Stick the wishbone back there- Evans and Higdon and DPJ, with McDoom ready to run some jet sweeps. Bring O’Korn in and tell him to arm punt just once or twice to keep safeties honest. Something- anything please? I’m tired of Tennessee/SEC homer piling on our team, conference and coach that we are represented by the luckeyes every year in the CFP, and then getting their doors blown off and calling us the little ten. Never fails that every year Tennessee fan inexplicably jumps on the Alabama band wagon- like they are sharing in the national title. Give me a swift kick in the nuts if I EVER cheer for my rival Ohio. Gave me joy to see them shut out last year.



Anyways I digress.



That Japanese gameshow will be on a loop playing in the background during The Game so I don’t go off and try to destroy something expensive when the coaches have no different plan for Urbs and the Luckeyes. Here’s hoping. Go Blue!